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> That's only half the story though isn't it? The reality is your $40K a month is made from these apps (http://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/feather-moor-ltd/id305

> That's only half the story though isn't it? The reality is your $40K a month is made from these apps (http://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/feather-moor-ltd/id3053457... http://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/feather-moor-ltd/id3053457...) 1 star apps with content ripped from sites like ehow.com. So what? HN also rabidly follows a guy that sells bingo cards. It's not about what you do, what's interesting is how you do it, and the story you tell doing that. Project management and bug tracking software is pretty boring, if you ask me. But the lessons from joel and 37s are anything but boring. In fact, I would be very interested in blogs from someone who runs a sucessful porn site, just because the challenges involved are emblematic of any startup -- how do you acquire customers in such a commoditized market? How do you keep them coming back, how do you monetize them? The technical side (scaling, etc) would make for good reading, too.

lotharbot 16y ago
> HN also rabidly follows a guy that sells bingo cards. HN rabidly follows a guy who tells us he sells bingo cards, and who actually sells bingo cards. It's interesting to hear him talk about it, because when he tells us about a challenge he overcame, it's a legitimate challenge to his actual business. Is "Max" telling us the truth about his actual business, and telling us actual lessons learned and challenges overcome, or just spinning clever tales? BlackwoodHolt seems to think it's mostly clever tales, and Max hasn't done a good job of dispelling that yet. I, too, would be interested to hear from someone who ran a successful porn site. But I wouldn't want to hear lessons about making a living on bingo cards from someone who actually made their money at porn and only had a tiny bingo card business on the side.
- jallmann 16y ago
  Nobody, "Max" included, has talked about making money in a method than claimed otherwise. From most indications, his apps are legit. Unglamorous, sure, but I don't think that's reason to "hide" behind a veil of secrecy, as the GP is implying. The only strange thing here is that he works under pseudonyms, but whatever. Don't get me wrong, I think the investigative work going into this is interesting and it is adding another dimension to this Max character. But HN, lighten up. This place takes everything so seriously it's almost stodgy sometimes.
blackwoodHolt2 16y ago
I completely agree, the point i was trying to make with those examples was that those people are up front in how they made their money. Mark is not, he either outright avoids the question or claims that he is doing niche applications and revealing them would destroy his business. If he was upfront like patio11 (the bingo card guy) i would never of done any digging. However everything i've seen from Mark seems like a calculated manipulation to be viewed in a certain way. patio11 appears to genuinely be here to share. Marks actions appear to be about building an audience for some unknown future purpose (ebook?,conference talks?,who knows).
- jallmann 16y ago
  Yes, Max/Mark/whoever is maddeningly vague sometimes. I'm not disputing that. I do think his paranoia is a bit unwarranted, but he does seems to value privacy. Now, if he just outright lied, well then that's shameful. I think the digging that you have done is really interesting, but this whole thing is starting to feel like a witch hunt. He might work under pseudonyms, sure, but at least his apps/etc seem legit.
  - blackwoodHolt2 16y ago
    I think it becoming to feel like a witch hunt because "Max" has not directly address whether he is Mark Essien, so everyone is speculating. His apps are legit, in that they exist but they do appear to contain content scraped from internet without any apparent attribution. Given the random mix of sources i don't think he has written permission from demand media (ehow.com) or the other random places the content comes from. His revenue claims may or may not be true, or may HAVE been true. I will point out one last thing. This app (http://appshopper.com/education/paintings-you-should-know http://appshopper.com/education/paintings-you-should-know) now deleted "Paintings you should know", was previously uploaded to the feather moor account. The one app that appeared on Maxs now deleted "Cube Of M" site was this "Art you should know" (http://itunes.apple.com/app/art-you-should-know/id356153267?mt=8 http://itunes.apple.com/app/art-you-should-know/id356153267?...) its obviously the same app. Notice "Seller:Mark-Anthony Essien", so that links Max to Mark. More importantly though his second name is Anthony not Max or Klein (like he claims in that blog article). This combined with Marks willingness to actually meet people in real life as Max makes me question why he writes and his end goal with his writings and half truths. I'll leave it there, people have the information that is out there and that was my only goal posting these messages, to inform.
drtse4 16y ago
What you do is an important component of the whole story, it can completely change the meaning and value of the "how" and it give context. And regarding patio, objectively we are on a completely different level, in his case i was never puzzled by the fact that one of his post reached the first page (does this make me one of those rabid followers?).
jacquesm 16y ago
The guy that sells bingo apps is genuine and probably the #2 contributor to the site (the #1 being grellas) when it comes to start-up advice that actually works.

lotharbot 16y ago

> HN also rabidly follows a guy that sells bingo cards. HN rabidly follows a guy who tells us he sells bingo cards, and who actually sells bingo cards. It's interesting to hear him talk about it, because when he tells us about a challenge he overcame, it's a legitimate challenge to his actual business. Is "Max" telling us the truth about his actual business, and telling us actual lessons learned and challenges overcome, or just spinning clever tales? BlackwoodHolt seems to think it's mostly clever tales, and Max hasn't done a good job of dispelling that yet. I, too, would be interested to hear from someone who ran a successful porn site. But I wouldn't want to hear lessons about making a living on bingo cards from someone who actually made their money at porn and only had a tiny bingo card business on the side.

jallmann 16y ago
Nobody, "Max" included, has talked about making money in a method than claimed otherwise. From most indications, his apps are legit. Unglamorous, sure, but I don't think that's reason to "hide" behind a veil of secrecy, as the GP is implying. The only strange thing here is that he works under pseudonyms, but whatever. Don't get me wrong, I think the investigative work going into this is interesting and it is adding another dimension to this Max character. But HN, lighten up. This place takes everything so seriously it's almost stodgy sometimes.

blackwoodHolt2 16y ago

I completely agree, the point i was trying to make with those examples was that those people are up front in how they made their money. Mark is not, he either outright avoids the question or claims that he is doing niche applications and revealing them would destroy his business. If he was upfront like patio11 (the bingo card guy) i would never of done any digging. However everything i've seen from Mark seems like a calculated manipulation to be viewed in a certain way. patio11 appears to genuinely be here to share. Marks actions appear to be about building an audience for some unknown future purpose (ebook?,conference talks?,who knows).

jallmann 16y ago
Yes, Max/Mark/whoever is maddeningly vague sometimes. I'm not disputing that. I do think his paranoia is a bit unwarranted, but he does seems to value privacy. Now, if he just outright lied, well then that's shameful. I think the digging that you have done is really interesting, but this whole thing is starting to feel like a witch hunt. He might work under pseudonyms, sure, but at least his apps/etc seem legit.
- blackwoodHolt2 16y ago
  I think it becoming to feel like a witch hunt because "Max" has not directly address whether he is Mark Essien, so everyone is speculating. His apps are legit, in that they exist but they do appear to contain content scraped from internet without any apparent attribution. Given the random mix of sources i don't think he has written permission from demand media (ehow.com) or the other random places the content comes from. His revenue claims may or may not be true, or may HAVE been true. I will point out one last thing. This app (http://appshopper.com/education/paintings-you-should-know http://appshopper.com/education/paintings-you-should-know) now deleted "Paintings you should know", was previously uploaded to the feather moor account. The one app that appeared on Maxs now deleted "Cube Of M" site was this "Art you should know" (http://itunes.apple.com/app/art-you-should-know/id356153267?mt=8 http://itunes.apple.com/app/art-you-should-know/id356153267?...) its obviously the same app. Notice "Seller:Mark-Anthony Essien", so that links Max to Mark. More importantly though his second name is Anthony not Max or Klein (like he claims in that blog article). This combined with Marks willingness to actually meet people in real life as Max makes me question why he writes and his end goal with his writings and half truths. I'll leave it there, people have the information that is out there and that was my only goal posting these messages, to inform.

drtse4 16y ago

What you do is an important component of the whole story, it can completely change the meaning and value of the "how" and it give context. And regarding patio, objectively we are on a completely different level, in his case i was never puzzled by the fact that one of his post reached the first page (does this make me one of those rabid followers?).

jacquesm 16y ago

The guy that sells bingo apps is genuine and probably the #2 contributor to the site (the #1 being grellas) when it comes to start-up advice that actually works.