5 ms·

So much brainpower and investment in the US is being devoted to building great software. Meanwhile, US infrastructure, which was the envy of the world 50 years

by cs702 9y ago

So much brainpower and investment in the US is being devoted to building great software. Meanwhile, US infrastructure, which was the envy of the world 50 years ago, is now crumbling everywhere: roads, bridges, tunnels, trains, train stations, airports, etc. Power grids too.

psychometry 9y ago
The problem is not lack of brainpower, but rather lack of political will. Specifically, the fact that one of the major parties has no interest in governing and that the pitiful state of compulsory education has created a populace too stupid to stop voting for them.
- whatshisface 9y ago
  I'd love to live in a world where all political problems were concentrated in a single party that enjoyed no support from smart people. I don't think that's our world, though.
  - kevin_thibedeau 9y ago
    The filter is only for critical thinking skills. This is how brain surgeons end up believing crazy shit about the pyramids.
- liquidise 9y ago
  Is it a question of political will or a function of capital needs and barrier-to-entry? One of the biggest boons of software development is the only true "capital" need is time. With almost no money or resources people can, and have, built disruptive software from nothing but an idea. The same cannot be said for infrastructure. No matter how compelling an idea and the expertise behind it, the reality is that it will always be easier to start a website than to start an infrastructure project. Hungry, tech-savvy people know this and i believe it contributes heavily to the choice of medium for most companies.
- digi_owl 9y ago
  To me it seems more that the world has become beholden to the spreadsheet. The basic problem is that maintenance can't be filed as an investment, and thus gets filed as an expense. And while investments can be written off over years, if not decades, expenses has to show up as a negative for the year (if not quarter) i gets approved.
- redwall_hp 9y ago
  All the smart people with very good ideas in the world doesn't do any good when the people who control the funds are self-interested and short-sighted idiots.
rb808 9y ago
> US infrastructure, which was the envy of the world 50 years ago Still is. Yes some internet is patchy in some places and US cities prefer cars over trains but US infrastructure is incredible.
- jsiepkes 9y ago
  > Still is I'm just going to leave this here: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42421417 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42421417
  - dnautics 9y ago
    but also who engineered the railroad to have a 35 mph safe curve immediately after an 80 mph stretch?
    - FireBeyond 9y ago
      As one of the first responders who actually went to this incident, I completely agree. Seems like it should have been staggered/staged down. The other thing I dislike about this incident is the "Lakewood Mayor warns a fatality/accident would happen soon", which though prophetic, the derailment had precisely zero to do with what he was talking about (which was, several miles north, the layout, offsets of pedestrian crossings of the track in the urban area).
      - joveian 9y ago
        The rush to blame the conductor in training was also really disgusting since it turns out he was the one sensible person who knew he didn't have enough training to safely work the route. http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2018/01/wounded_conductor_files_first.html http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2...
rayiner 9y ago
Ironically, power grids are failing due to the same market structure many people want to impose on Internet infrastructure. Power grids by and large are not built with public money. Instead, local power companies (sometimes private, sometimes municipally owned) are granted monopolies to build transmission infrastructure, and various governing agencies set rates to allow them to recoup their investment and operating costs at “acceptable” rates of return. The idea is that transmission infrastructure (as distinguished from generation infrastructure) is a “natural monopoly” that warrants government rate regulation. Of course, there is tremendous political pressure to keep electric rates low, which leads to underinvestment and predictable results. The same basic problem plagues water and sewer utilities too. Of course this problem seems to be unique to our implementation rather than inherent. Other countries use the same structure, but don’t chronically under invest (and their electric, water, and sewer rates reflect that!).
- existencebox 9y ago
  I would pay _good money_ for my paid privately-provided services to be as reliable as my utilities, but despite the hallowed "powers of markets" I don't even have this option. (>90% of my last 10 years of housing has had no option outside of Comcast, at laughably low speeds) On top of this: I can't remember the last time I had to call my water/gas/electric providers threatening to cancel service unless they undid a stealth rate raise. I can't remember the last time I had a major utility outage that lasted multiple months while the provider tried to justify that it wasn't their fault, leaving me without the service I was paying for. I can't remember the last time I found out a utility provider was throttling/filtering/negatively impacting my service in unexpected fashion. (Parallel to p2p throttling, throughput caps, ad injection, sudden limitations to tethering on my phone) While there are many fair arguments to be made against imposing municipal ownership, comparing it to our current state of internet infrastructure is laughable. As you say, other countries seem to manage much better than we do at utilities. So why not address these issues rather than demonizing what may still be an incremental improvement to the even worse situation present in our communication providers? (for the record, I see the same very vague meta-problem of misaligned incentives and low accountability as the root to both utility degradation and ISP misbehavior)
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
frik 9y ago
TechCrunch reported a two hour power outage. Funny as always the official press release, it acknowledged just a few minutes. "Today at approximately 11:15 AM, the Central Hall and South Hall bridge meeting rooms at the Las Vegas Convention Center lost power. Power in the South Hall was restored within minutes, and power has now been fully restored to all areas" The TechCrunch article is great, it mentions several other incidents that were quite funny to read. As always, such gems of articles get buried so no one can read them later, what a shame.

by cs702 9y ago

psychometry 9y ago

The problem is not lack of brainpower, but rather lack of political will. Specifically, the fact that one of the major parties has no interest in governing and that the pitiful state of compulsory education has created a populace too stupid to stop voting for them.

whatshisface 9y ago
I'd love to live in a world where all political problems were concentrated in a single party that enjoyed no support from smart people. I don't think that's our world, though.
- kevin_thibedeau 9y ago
  The filter is only for critical thinking skills. This is how brain surgeons end up believing crazy shit about the pyramids.
liquidise 9y ago
Is it a question of political will or a function of capital needs and barrier-to-entry? One of the biggest boons of software development is the only true "capital" need is time. With almost no money or resources people can, and have, built disruptive software from nothing but an idea. The same cannot be said for infrastructure. No matter how compelling an idea and the expertise behind it, the reality is that it will always be easier to start a website than to start an infrastructure project. Hungry, tech-savvy people know this and i believe it contributes heavily to the choice of medium for most companies.
digi_owl 9y ago
To me it seems more that the world has become beholden to the spreadsheet. The basic problem is that maintenance can't be filed as an investment, and thus gets filed as an expense. And while investments can be written off over years, if not decades, expenses has to show up as a negative for the year (if not quarter) i gets approved.
redwall_hp 9y ago
All the smart people with very good ideas in the world doesn't do any good when the people who control the funds are self-interested and short-sighted idiots.

rb808 9y ago

> US infrastructure, which was the envy of the world 50 years ago Still is. Yes some internet is patchy in some places and US cities prefer cars over trains but US infrastructure is incredible.

jsiepkes 9y ago
> Still is I'm just going to leave this here: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42421417 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42421417
- dnautics 9y ago
  but also who engineered the railroad to have a 35 mph safe curve immediately after an 80 mph stretch?
  - FireBeyond 9y ago
    As one of the first responders who actually went to this incident, I completely agree. Seems like it should have been staggered/staged down. The other thing I dislike about this incident is the "Lakewood Mayor warns a fatality/accident would happen soon", which though prophetic, the derailment had precisely zero to do with what he was talking about (which was, several miles north, the layout, offsets of pedestrian crossings of the track in the urban area).
    - joveian 9y ago
      The rush to blame the conductor in training was also really disgusting since it turns out he was the one sensible person who knew he didn't have enough training to safely work the route. http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2018/01/wounded_conductor_files_first.html http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2...

rayiner 9y ago

Ironically, power grids are failing due to the same market structure many people want to impose on Internet infrastructure. Power grids by and large are not built with public money. Instead, local power companies (sometimes private, sometimes municipally owned) are granted monopolies to build transmission infrastructure, and various governing agencies set rates to allow them to recoup their investment and operating costs at “acceptable” rates of return. The idea is that transmission infrastructure (as distinguished from generation infrastructure) is a “natural monopoly” that warrants government rate regulation. Of course, there is tremendous political pressure to keep electric rates low, which leads to underinvestment and predictable results. The same basic problem plagues water and sewer utilities too. Of course this problem seems to be unique to our implementation rather than inherent. Other countries use the same structure, but don’t chronically under invest (and their electric, water, and sewer rates reflect that!).

existencebox 9y ago
I would pay _good money_ for my paid privately-provided services to be as reliable as my utilities, but despite the hallowed "powers of markets" I don't even have this option. (>90% of my last 10 years of housing has had no option outside of Comcast, at laughably low speeds) On top of this: I can't remember the last time I had to call my water/gas/electric providers threatening to cancel service unless they undid a stealth rate raise. I can't remember the last time I had a major utility outage that lasted multiple months while the provider tried to justify that it wasn't their fault, leaving me without the service I was paying for. I can't remember the last time I found out a utility provider was throttling/filtering/negatively impacting my service in unexpected fashion. (Parallel to p2p throttling, throughput caps, ad injection, sudden limitations to tethering on my phone) While there are many fair arguments to be made against imposing municipal ownership, comparing it to our current state of internet infrastructure is laughable. As you say, other countries seem to manage much better than we do at utilities. So why not address these issues rather than demonizing what may still be an incremental improvement to the even worse situation present in our communication providers? (for the record, I see the same very vague meta-problem of misaligned incentives and low accountability as the root to both utility degradation and ISP misbehavior)

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

frik 9y ago

TechCrunch reported a two hour power outage. Funny as always the official press release, it acknowledged just a few minutes. "Today at approximately 11:15 AM, the Central Hall and South Hall bridge meeting rooms at the Las Vegas Convention Center lost power. Power in the South Hall was restored within minutes, and power has now been fully restored to all areas" The TechCrunch article is great, it mentions several other incidents that were quite funny to read. As always, such gems of articles get buried so no one can read them later, what a shame.