4 ms·

On the contrary. It helps show that continued efforts at victim disarmament (first no firearms; now that the bad guys use bladed weapons, we must have a crusade

On the contrary. It helps show that continued efforts at victim disarmament (first no firearms; now that the bad guys use bladed weapons, we must have a crusade against those next) do not save anyone in the long run. Or, maybe it just shows that GT are pirates whose natural enemy is the ninja.

huhtenberg 16y ago
Right. Freaking out random people is a great way to stand up to that pesky government. That will show 'em.
- CWuestefeld 16y ago
  Well, yeah. We've removed people's ability to defend themselves, and replaced it with a knee-jerk fear. The freaking out is, I contend, more the result of fear-mongering (in this case by Liberals, but in other cases from the other side). The world didn't used to work that way. And in some places it's still more rational. I've got a cabin in the woods, and around there it's pretty much assumed that everyone owns firearms. One can frequently see someone walking around the grocery store with a knife on his belt, and (a) no one gives it a second thought, and (b) no one gets stabbed.
  - gaius 16y ago
    Exactly. I'm a sailor and a diver, and everyone has a knife. Never, ever heard of anyone getting stabbed in any of those communities. It's just a perfectly normal tool, like a compass.
    - sophacles 16y ago
      Having worked in many kitchens, where everyone also has at least one, usually more, knives, I can say stabbings are a surprisingly common occurrence. Cuttings even more so (not talking about accidents either).
      - adnam 16y ago
        How common?
        CWuestefeld 16y ago
        In the kitchen, I'd say it's medium-rare.
        sophacles 16y ago
        Common enough that most long timers in the kitchen have seen a stabbing or serious cutting, and plenty of minor cuttings. At a different level, inflicting pain with knives and other sharp things was a common practical joke and an accepted pastime. For instance, at one place, we had to wear these stupid name-tag pins, and had a part of the kitchen visible to the dining area. So the game was to use the pin on the name tag to stab people standing where customers could see them. It had to be done in a subtle way that you couldn't be seen stabbing. The stabee was not supposed to react visibly as that would not be good for business. It got vicious sometimes, but we still played and had fun with it. It's totally the type of thing that lands people in jail for assult and harassment in most settings, but in the kitchen it was just normal.
  - huhtenberg 16y ago
    > and around there it's pretty much assumed that everyone one owns firearms Well, yeah, exactly. Around campus it's pretty much assumed that people don't walk around carrying samurai swords. That's unless they have malicious intent as it was demonstrated by a lunatic just few months ago. Given the circumstances this has very little to do with liberals, it's just basic common sense.
    - CWuestefeld 16y ago
      That's just my point. You've taken what would otherwise be perfectly natural, and made it seem sinister. For example, my grandfather (still alive at 92) likes to talk about growing up in the Depression. He tells about going to school carrying his .410/.22 over/under. He'd leave the gun in the coat room for the day. While riding home, he'd hunt for rabbits or squirrels to take home for dinner. That was just common sense. So what was perfectly natural for my grandfather would be looked at differently today. Now, a kid forming the shape of a handgun with his thumb and forefinger is considered evil behavior. But it's only a model of what was benign, civil behavior for my grandfather. BTW, I despise the phrase "common sense". In current usage, it seems to have become a euphemism for "I can't provide a rational argument, so I'm just going to wave my hands". My usage above was sarcastic, for that reason. EDIT: spelling, clarity
      - dugmartin 16y ago
        My dad brought his muzzleloader to my 4th grade class in 1980 and gave a talk about how it worked and how to pour your own lead balls. I can't imagine what the SWAT team response to that would be today.
      - Tichy 16y ago
        Still, why would you carry a sword or a gun onto a university campus? It seems rather useless, so the environment is right to consider it not normal and hence threatening. Even if your logic was correct, it would mean that most people would needlessly have to drag weaponry around in their daily lives.
        16y ago
  - jbooth 16y ago
    Don't bring liberals into this. Just because the NRA tells you that we want to take your guns away doesn't make it true. The NRA endorsed Senator Jim Webb's opponent. Webb subsequently got in trouble for accidentally taking a pistol into the capitol building. This guy is not anti-gun. The NRA is just running a donation scam. "Won't someone think of the children!" is non-partisan, and if it has a label, it's most closely associated with NIMBY.
    - CWuestefeld 16y ago
      Well, of course the NRA are GOP stooges. I don't take them seriously, I think they really want to preserve the status quo. Heck, they didn't want to pursue the Heller case. Gun Owners of America are much better defenders of shooting and self-defense rights. Now, victim disarmament (aka "gun control") is most certainly a Democrat talking point. For example, they were the ones that got the ridiculous assault weapon ban passed, and thought that its repeal was the end of the world. I know that Liberal and Democrat are only slightly closer to synonyms than Conservative and Republican. As far as NIMBY goes, well, Chuck Schumer and Dianne Feinstein both carry concealed (see http://americandaily.com/article/9405 http://americandaily.com/article/9405 ), and they're very loud supporters of victim disarmament. Hypocrisy is par for the course in politics. Witness John Kerry's yacht. Politics should not be confused with ideology. They dress it up and put ideological lipstick on it, but the vast majority of today's politicians are not fighting for any ideology, they're fighting to extend their careers and their power. Of course the GOP is full of hypocrites as well. GWB talked about smaller government, but the government grew more under his watch than at any time in the history of the country.
      - jbooth 16y ago
        It's "democratic". Every time someone uses the word "democrat" as an adjective, they reveal themselves to be more concerned with focus-group phrase mongering and tribal loyalty than attempting to understand the truth of the situation. Ditto for "victim disarmament". This isn't 1984, and changing the phrasing doesn't change the facts or your argument. You're not a victim, and there have not been serious efforts at disarming anyone since the assault weapons bill was allowed to expire.
Tichy 16y ago
You mean if everybody would be carrying Samurai swords, there would be less chopping incidents?
- camiller 16y ago
  If everyone were carrying firearms there would be less people (remaining) carrying Samurai umbrellas.
  - Tichy 16y ago
    That reminds me that I actually tend to worry when I accidentally end up walking a few steps behind a woman in the dark. What if she thinks I am a stalker and shoots me? So I always try to overtake them as fast as possible.

huhtenberg 16y ago

Right. Freaking out random people is a great way to stand up to that pesky government. That will show 'em.

CWuestefeld 16y ago
Well, yeah. We've removed people's ability to defend themselves, and replaced it with a knee-jerk fear. The freaking out is, I contend, more the result of fear-mongering (in this case by Liberals, but in other cases from the other side). The world didn't used to work that way. And in some places it's still more rational. I've got a cabin in the woods, and around there it's pretty much assumed that everyone owns firearms. One can frequently see someone walking around the grocery store with a knife on his belt, and (a) no one gives it a second thought, and (b) no one gets stabbed.
- gaius 16y ago
  Exactly. I'm a sailor and a diver, and everyone has a knife. Never, ever heard of anyone getting stabbed in any of those communities. It's just a perfectly normal tool, like a compass.
  - sophacles 16y ago
    Having worked in many kitchens, where everyone also has at least one, usually more, knives, I can say stabbings are a surprisingly common occurrence. Cuttings even more so (not talking about accidents either).
    - adnam 16y ago
      How common?
      - CWuestefeld 16y ago
        In the kitchen, I'd say it's medium-rare.
      - sophacles 16y ago
        Common enough that most long timers in the kitchen have seen a stabbing or serious cutting, and plenty of minor cuttings. At a different level, inflicting pain with knives and other sharp things was a common practical joke and an accepted pastime. For instance, at one place, we had to wear these stupid name-tag pins, and had a part of the kitchen visible to the dining area. So the game was to use the pin on the name tag to stab people standing where customers could see them. It had to be done in a subtle way that you couldn't be seen stabbing. The stabee was not supposed to react visibly as that would not be good for business. It got vicious sometimes, but we still played and had fun with it. It's totally the type of thing that lands people in jail for assult and harassment in most settings, but in the kitchen it was just normal.
- huhtenberg 16y ago
  > and around there it's pretty much assumed that everyone one owns firearms Well, yeah, exactly. Around campus it's pretty much assumed that people don't walk around carrying samurai swords. That's unless they have malicious intent as it was demonstrated by a lunatic just few months ago. Given the circumstances this has very little to do with liberals, it's just basic common sense.
  - CWuestefeld 16y ago
    That's just my point. You've taken what would otherwise be perfectly natural, and made it seem sinister. For example, my grandfather (still alive at 92) likes to talk about growing up in the Depression. He tells about going to school carrying his .410/.22 over/under. He'd leave the gun in the coat room for the day. While riding home, he'd hunt for rabbits or squirrels to take home for dinner. That was just common sense. So what was perfectly natural for my grandfather would be looked at differently today. Now, a kid forming the shape of a handgun with his thumb and forefinger is considered evil behavior. But it's only a model of what was benign, civil behavior for my grandfather. BTW, I despise the phrase "common sense". In current usage, it seems to have become a euphemism for "I can't provide a rational argument, so I'm just going to wave my hands". My usage above was sarcastic, for that reason. EDIT: spelling, clarity
    - dugmartin 16y ago
      My dad brought his muzzleloader to my 4th grade class in 1980 and gave a talk about how it worked and how to pour your own lead balls. I can't imagine what the SWAT team response to that would be today.
    - Tichy 16y ago
      Still, why would you carry a sword or a gun onto a university campus? It seems rather useless, so the environment is right to consider it not normal and hence threatening. Even if your logic was correct, it would mean that most people would needlessly have to drag weaponry around in their daily lives.
      - 16y ago
- jbooth 16y ago
  Don't bring liberals into this. Just because the NRA tells you that we want to take your guns away doesn't make it true. The NRA endorsed Senator Jim Webb's opponent. Webb subsequently got in trouble for accidentally taking a pistol into the capitol building. This guy is not anti-gun. The NRA is just running a donation scam. "Won't someone think of the children!" is non-partisan, and if it has a label, it's most closely associated with NIMBY.
  - CWuestefeld 16y ago
    Well, of course the NRA are GOP stooges. I don't take them seriously, I think they really want to preserve the status quo. Heck, they didn't want to pursue the Heller case. Gun Owners of America are much better defenders of shooting and self-defense rights. Now, victim disarmament (aka "gun control") is most certainly a Democrat talking point. For example, they were the ones that got the ridiculous assault weapon ban passed, and thought that its repeal was the end of the world. I know that Liberal and Democrat are only slightly closer to synonyms than Conservative and Republican. As far as NIMBY goes, well, Chuck Schumer and Dianne Feinstein both carry concealed (see http://americandaily.com/article/9405 http://americandaily.com/article/9405 ), and they're very loud supporters of victim disarmament. Hypocrisy is par for the course in politics. Witness John Kerry's yacht. Politics should not be confused with ideology. They dress it up and put ideological lipstick on it, but the vast majority of today's politicians are not fighting for any ideology, they're fighting to extend their careers and their power. Of course the GOP is full of hypocrites as well. GWB talked about smaller government, but the government grew more under his watch than at any time in the history of the country.
    - jbooth 16y ago
      It's "democratic". Every time someone uses the word "democrat" as an adjective, they reveal themselves to be more concerned with focus-group phrase mongering and tribal loyalty than attempting to understand the truth of the situation. Ditto for "victim disarmament". This isn't 1984, and changing the phrasing doesn't change the facts or your argument. You're not a victim, and there have not been serious efforts at disarming anyone since the assault weapons bill was allowed to expire.

Tichy 16y ago

You mean if everybody would be carrying Samurai swords, there would be less chopping incidents?

camiller 16y ago
If everyone were carrying firearms there would be less people (remaining) carrying Samurai umbrellas.
- Tichy 16y ago
  That reminds me that I actually tend to worry when I accidentally end up walking a few steps behind a woman in the dark. What if she thinks I am a stalker and shoots me? So I always try to overtake them as fast as possible.