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I applaud the audacity of starting an airline from scratch, considering it's way up there in terms of capital requirements and regulatory burden, and the indust

I applaud the audacity of starting an airline from scratch, considering it's way up there in terms of capital requirements and regulatory burden, and the industry has been losing money in the US, collectively, since the Carter administration. But it needs to be said that SFO<->LAX is, at just 300 miles, and with the high demand shown by such startups, a perfect example of everything that is wrong with transportation in the US. Compare Berlin<->Munich which happens to be almost exactly the same distance: even with some political compromises requiring the trains to stop in towns along the route that planners would rather have avoided, total travel time is only 3 1/2 hours. Train stations are also in the middle of each city, saving you about an hour of time on each end. And you can just hop onto any train without booking in advance, without going through security, without discarding your bottle of water, without the yoga-like contortions of economy class, and without the existential threat of not having internet for two hours. That even an environmentally friendly US state such as California can't get its act together, and instead "solves" its traffic needs in the most resource-intensive ways available, is a scathing indictment of the US' lost faith in the power of government to solve collective action problems.

ovao 9y ago
This is a private company attempting to solve a cost and convenience issue, not the State of California attempting to solve a travel-related environmental issue. There are other industries attempting to solve transportation and environmental problems in more general ways.
dhzjxnbzn 9y ago
I'm a fan of rail in general, and the German system is fantastic. But the LA and SF Bay Areas consist mostly of sprawl and don't have good transit to begin with. You need to drive to get somewhere fast. In those circumstances, taking off from the burbs is a feature, not a bug.
- dx034 9y ago
  But this service wants to fly from LAX which is not really in the suburbs and not always easy to get to.
briandear 9y ago
For me, airplanes are preferable to running train tracks across the landscape. It's also cheaper. I live in southern France near Marseille and for me to get to Frankfurt by train -- it's a time consuming mess. I can be there by airplane in about an hour. Getting to Geneva from Marseille is faster by airplane by multiple hours and even driving a car is more convenient than the train depending on the connections and road conditions -- especially if I'm ultimately going to Chamonix. I could take a train from Marseille to Brussels -- but why would I? I can spend almost 7 hours on a train or 1.25 hours on an airplane AND I don't have to drive all the way into Marseille, find a place to leave my car and risk getting attacked or robbed in the station [1][2] > Train stations are also in the middle of each city, saving you about an hour of time on each end That's assuming that you actually want to be in the middle of each city. SFO to Cupertino by car is about 50 minutes. Downtown San Francisco to Cupertino is roughly double that. Not everyone traveling to San Francisco (or LA) actually wants to be in the city center. LAX to Santa Monica, Venice or most other west LA destinations is faster than downtown Los Angeles to those areas. LAX to Long Beach is faster than from downtown LA. [1] http://ktla.com/2017/10/01/at-least-2-dead-after-knife-attack-at-train-station-in-marseille-france/ http://ktla.com/2017/10/01/at-least-2-dead-after-knife-attac... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/17/world/europe/marseille-france-acid-attack.html?_r=0 https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/17/world/europe/marseille-fr...
rconti 9y ago
SFO-LAX high speed rail is theoretically being built, for 100 billion dollars. http://www.hsr.ca.gov/ http://www.hsr.ca.gov/
- MrMorden 9y ago
  To cost-effectively build a rail system in the US, you need to start with an FRA waiver (or avoid needing one with a fully separated system). Without one, you need special FRA-compliant trains that weigh (IIRC) 40% more than those designed to EU/Japanese rules and are of course at least that much more expensive. Then you need to not take any federal funds, because if you do you'll be forced to buy everything from domestic manufacturers, which treat you exactly as you'd expect a captive audience to be treated. (This is why the US's shipbuilding industry is confined to government contracts and vessels that are below the minimum size to be covered by the Jones Act.) If you take federal money, also expect expensive and lengthy procurement grievances regardless of the merits. California probably has a similar state law, plus all sorts of others (e.g. CEQA), and the BANANAs are very experienced at wielding them. Add all the union contracts that mandate excessive staffing, constant handing off of work between jurisdictions, etc. and you're paying ten times as much per kilometer vs. a comparable project in a high-wage EU country.

ovao 9y ago

This is a private company attempting to solve a cost and convenience issue, not the State of California attempting to solve a travel-related environmental issue. There are other industries attempting to solve transportation and environmental problems in more general ways.

dhzjxnbzn 9y ago

I'm a fan of rail in general, and the German system is fantastic. But the LA and SF Bay Areas consist mostly of sprawl and don't have good transit to begin with. You need to drive to get somewhere fast. In those circumstances, taking off from the burbs is a feature, not a bug.

dx034 9y ago
But this service wants to fly from LAX which is not really in the suburbs and not always easy to get to.

briandear 9y ago

For me, airplanes are preferable to running train tracks across the landscape. It's also cheaper. I live in southern France near Marseille and for me to get to Frankfurt by train -- it's a time consuming mess. I can be there by airplane in about an hour. Getting to Geneva from Marseille is faster by airplane by multiple hours and even driving a car is more convenient than the train depending on the connections and road conditions -- especially if I'm ultimately going to Chamonix. I could take a train from Marseille to Brussels -- but why would I? I can spend almost 7 hours on a train or 1.25 hours on an airplane AND I don't have to drive all the way into Marseille, find a place to leave my car and risk getting attacked or robbed in the station [1][2] > Train stations are also in the middle of each city, saving you about an hour of time on each end That's assuming that you actually want to be in the middle of each city. SFO to Cupertino by car is about 50 minutes. Downtown San Francisco to Cupertino is roughly double that. Not everyone traveling to San Francisco (or LA) actually wants to be in the city center. LAX to Santa Monica, Venice or most other west LA destinations is faster than downtown Los Angeles to those areas. LAX to Long Beach is faster than from downtown LA. [1] http://ktla.com/2017/10/01/at-least-2-dead-after-knife-attack-at-train-station-in-marseille-france/ http://ktla.com/2017/10/01/at-least-2-dead-after-knife-attac... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/17/world/europe/marseille-france-acid-attack.html?_r=0 https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/17/world/europe/marseille-fr...

rconti 9y ago

SFO-LAX high speed rail is theoretically being built, for 100 billion dollars. http://www.hsr.ca.gov/ http://www.hsr.ca.gov/

MrMorden 9y ago
To cost-effectively build a rail system in the US, you need to start with an FRA waiver (or avoid needing one with a fully separated system). Without one, you need special FRA-compliant trains that weigh (IIRC) 40% more than those designed to EU/Japanese rules and are of course at least that much more expensive. Then you need to not take any federal funds, because if you do you'll be forced to buy everything from domestic manufacturers, which treat you exactly as you'd expect a captive audience to be treated. (This is why the US's shipbuilding industry is confined to government contracts and vessels that are below the minimum size to be covered by the Jones Act.) If you take federal money, also expect expensive and lengthy procurement grievances regardless of the merits. California probably has a similar state law, plus all sorts of others (e.g. CEQA), and the BANANAs are very experienced at wielding them. Add all the union contracts that mandate excessive staffing, constant handing off of work between jurisdictions, etc. and you're paying ten times as much per kilometer vs. a comparable project in a high-wage EU country.