6 ms·

Were the moors deforested by humans for agricultural purposes? It doesn't seem like much is grown there.

throwaway894345 9y ago
My understanding is that much of Europe was deforested during the Bronze and Iron ages, mostly for fuel to smelt ores. Hopefully someone who knows more can comment?
mrec 9y ago
Yes, mostly cleared with fire around the start of the Bronze Age for crop farming and livestock grazing. The soil's too acidic now to be good for much except looking scenic. Hipster Britain: we were Brazil before it was mainstream.
- Bromskloss 9y ago
  What has made it acidic?
  - vram22 9y ago
    Don't know actual chemistry facts (rusty) but would not be surprised if it was the ash that did.
    - FreeFull 9y ago
      Ash is alkaline, so it would make the ground more basic rather than more acidic.
  - mrec 9y ago
    Not a field I know anything about, but you might try https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/57963.pdf https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/57963.pdf page 58
  - gadders 9y ago
    I would guess the organic matter from thousands of years of growth. Normally organic matter rich soil suits ericaceous (acid loving) plants.
    - mrec 9y ago
      > ericaceous (acid loving) plants Not to be confused with erinaceous (pertaining to hedgehogs) plants. Cacti, perhaps? English vocabulary can be weird.
- vram22 9y ago
  Can the acidity be reduced, maybe by some putting some alkaline additives in it? Had not come across this issue before (not an expert, just interested). Is it not technically feasible, or would it cost too much?
  - bsder 9y ago
    Quite a few evergreen species are good at living in and reducing acidity over time (40-100 year timeframe). Replanting some evergreen trees is a way to help the forest kickstart recovery on old strip mine wreckage.
    - vram22 9y ago
      Good to know, thanks.
  - olau 9y ago
    In Denmark, after a war where the southern part of Jutland was lost, a campaign started to farm the heath. There was a hard layer half a meter or so beneath the top soil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardpan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardpan so with deep plow or in many cases back-breaking work, the land was made fertile again. And yes, pulverized chalk is one of the methods used to raise the pH. It's not high-quality farming land, often too much sand and too little peat. Nowadays the little heath left in Denmark is usually protected. It'll usually turn to forest if left alone with no grazing.
ds55 9y ago
Considering they used to be classified as ‘waste’ land I strongly suspect it was deforested for fuel. The estates that owned them called them waste as nothing would grow there. Generally they are used for very low density livestock farming and most is common land.
DanBC 9y ago
It's a mix of using wood for building materials, and for fuel, and clearing land for agriculture. https://www.forestry.gov.uk/forestry/INFD-8Y5BSY https://www.forestry.gov.uk/forestry/INFD-8Y5BSY
teh_klev 9y ago
This is worth a read: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/georgemonbiot/2016/jan/14/swaling-is-causing-an-environmental-disaster-on-britains-moors https://www.theguardian.com/environment/georgemonbiot/2016/j...
- mkingston 9y ago
  Interesting, that article quotes the Exmoor NP authority "Swaling maintains the character of the landscape". I've asked perhaps 10 Brits, mostly walkers and climbers who value national parks, what they think about reforesting. I'd estimate the response as 50/50 in favour, with those not in favour often using very similar phrases to "character of the landscape."
jjp 9y ago
See http://www.dartmoor.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/814479/lab-farming.pdf http://www.dartmoor.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/81447... for some history of farming on Dartmoor and https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/regional-climates/sw https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/regional-climates/sw for climate. tldr - forest was cleared by about 2000-1500BC primarily for grazing although some evidence of cereal being grown. However, by 1000-1BC the climate deteriorated and spread of peat led to abandonment of higher moor. Climatic improvement in early medieval times led to re-occupation, but by mid-1300's the population had moved again to better land. Black Death reduced Devon's population by 2/3 and meant that if you survived you went and farmed better land. Farming is still hard on Dartmoor, driven by soil and weather. For example Princetown is 23Km and 400 metres away from Plymouth, but rainfall doubles from about 1000mm to 2000mm per annum.

My understanding is that much of Europe was deforested during the Bronze and Iron ages, mostly for fuel to smelt ores. Hopefully someone who knows more can comment?

mrec 9y ago

Yes, mostly cleared with fire around the start of the Bronze Age for crop farming and livestock grazing. The soil's too acidic now to be good for much except looking scenic. Hipster Britain: we were Brazil before it was mainstream.

Bromskloss 9y ago
What has made it acidic?
- vram22 9y ago
  Don't know actual chemistry facts (rusty) but would not be surprised if it was the ash that did.
  - FreeFull 9y ago
    Ash is alkaline, so it would make the ground more basic rather than more acidic.
- mrec 9y ago
  Not a field I know anything about, but you might try https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/57963.pdf https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/57963.pdf page 58
- gadders 9y ago
  I would guess the organic matter from thousands of years of growth. Normally organic matter rich soil suits ericaceous (acid loving) plants.
  - mrec 9y ago
    > ericaceous (acid loving) plants Not to be confused with erinaceous (pertaining to hedgehogs) plants. Cacti, perhaps? English vocabulary can be weird.
vram22 9y ago
Can the acidity be reduced, maybe by some putting some alkaline additives in it? Had not come across this issue before (not an expert, just interested). Is it not technically feasible, or would it cost too much?
- bsder 9y ago
  Quite a few evergreen species are good at living in and reducing acidity over time (40-100 year timeframe). Replanting some evergreen trees is a way to help the forest kickstart recovery on old strip mine wreckage.
  - vram22 9y ago
    Good to know, thanks.
- olau 9y ago
  In Denmark, after a war where the southern part of Jutland was lost, a campaign started to farm the heath. There was a hard layer half a meter or so beneath the top soil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardpan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardpan so with deep plow or in many cases back-breaking work, the land was made fertile again. And yes, pulverized chalk is one of the methods used to raise the pH. It's not high-quality farming land, often too much sand and too little peat. Nowadays the little heath left in Denmark is usually protected. It'll usually turn to forest if left alone with no grazing.

ds55 9y ago

Considering they used to be classified as ‘waste’ land I strongly suspect it was deforested for fuel. The estates that owned them called them waste as nothing would grow there. Generally they are used for very low density livestock farming and most is common land.

DanBC 9y ago

It's a mix of using wood for building materials, and for fuel, and clearing land for agriculture. https://www.forestry.gov.uk/forestry/INFD-8Y5BSY https://www.forestry.gov.uk/forestry/INFD-8Y5BSY

teh_klev 9y ago

This is worth a read: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/georgemonbiot/2016/jan/14/swaling-is-causing-an-environmental-disaster-on-britains-moors https://www.theguardian.com/environment/georgemonbiot/2016/j...

mkingston 9y ago
Interesting, that article quotes the Exmoor NP authority "Swaling maintains the character of the landscape". I've asked perhaps 10 Brits, mostly walkers and climbers who value national parks, what they think about reforesting. I'd estimate the response as 50/50 in favour, with those not in favour often using very similar phrases to "character of the landscape."

jjp 9y ago

See http://www.dartmoor.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/814479/lab-farming.pdf http://www.dartmoor.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/81447... for some history of farming on Dartmoor and https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/regional-climates/sw https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/regional-climates/sw for climate. tldr - forest was cleared by about 2000-1500BC primarily for grazing although some evidence of cereal being grown. However, by 1000-1BC the climate deteriorated and spread of peat led to abandonment of higher moor. Climatic improvement in early medieval times led to re-occupation, but by mid-1300's the population had moved again to better land. Black Death reduced Devon's population by 2/3 and meant that if you survived you went and farmed better land. Farming is still hard on Dartmoor, driven by soil and weather. For example Princetown is 23Km and 400 metres away from Plymouth, but rainfall doubles from about 1000mm to 2000mm per annum.