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It's fun to consider that the British Isles (and indeed all of Europe) was once a vast forest. I visited Dartmoor a few years ago, and the moors have such a fee
by girzel 9y ago
It's fun to consider that the British Isles (and indeed all of Europe) was once a vast forest. I visited Dartmoor a few years ago, and the moors have such a feeling of antiquity about them it's easy to forget that they, too, were once forested, though they've been denuded since the Neolithic era.
- mac01021 9y agoWere the moors deforested by humans for agricultural purposes? It doesn't seem like much is grown there.
- throwaway894345 9y agoMy understanding is that much of Europe was deforested during the Bronze and Iron ages, mostly for fuel to smelt ores. Hopefully someone who knows more can comment?
- mrec 9y agoYes, mostly cleared with fire around the start of the Bronze Age for crop farming and livestock grazing. The soil's too acidic now to be good for much except looking scenic. Hipster Britain: we were Brazil before it was mainstream.
- Bromskloss 9y agoWhat has made it acidic?
- vram22 9y agoDon't know actual chemistry facts (rusty) but would not be surprised if it was the ash that did.
- FreeFull 9y agoAsh is alkaline, so it would make the ground more basic rather than more acidic.
- mrec 9y agoNot a field I know anything about, but you might try https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/57963.pdf https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/57963.pdf page 58
- gadders 9y agoI would guess the organic matter from thousands of years of growth. Normally organic matter rich soil suits ericaceous (acid loving) plants.
- mrec 9y ago> ericaceous (acid loving) plants Not to be confused with erinaceous (pertaining to hedgehogs) plants. Cacti, perhaps? English vocabulary can be weird.
- vram22 9y agoCan the acidity be reduced, maybe by some putting some alkaline additives in it? Had not come across this issue before (not an expert, just interested). Is it not technically feasible, or would it cost too much?
- bsder 9y agoQuite a few evergreen species are good at living in and reducing acidity over time (40-100 year timeframe). Replanting some evergreen trees is a way to help the forest kickstart recovery on old strip mine wreckage.
- vram22 9y agoGood to know, thanks.
- olau 9y agoIn Denmark, after a war where the southern part of Jutland was lost, a campaign started to farm the heath. There was a hard layer half a meter or so beneath the top soil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardpan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardpan so with deep plow or in many cases back-breaking work, the land was made fertile again. And yes, pulverized chalk is one of the methods used to raise the pH. It's not high-quality farming land, often too much sand and too little peat. Nowadays the little heath left in Denmark is usually protected. It'll usually turn to forest if left alone with no grazing.
- ds55 9y agoConsidering they used to be classified as ‘waste’ land I strongly suspect it was deforested for fuel. The estates that owned them called them waste as nothing would grow there. Generally they are used for very low density livestock farming and most is common land.
- DanBC 9y agoIt's a mix of using wood for building materials, and for fuel, and clearing land for agriculture. https://www.forestry.gov.uk/forestry/INFD-8Y5BSY https://www.forestry.gov.uk/forestry/INFD-8Y5BSY
- teh_klev 9y agoThis is worth a read: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/georgemonbiot/2016/jan/14/swaling-is-causing-an-environmental-disaster-on-britains-moors https://www.theguardian.com/environment/georgemonbiot/2016/j...
- mkingston 9y agoInteresting, that article quotes the Exmoor NP authority "Swaling maintains the character of the landscape". I've asked perhaps 10 Brits, mostly walkers and climbers who value national parks, what they think about reforesting. I'd estimate the response as 50/50 in favour, with those not in favour often using very similar phrases to "character of the landscape."
- jjp 9y agoSee http://www.dartmoor.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/814479/lab-farming.pdf http://www.dartmoor.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/81447... for some history of farming on Dartmoor and https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/regional-climates/sw https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/regional-climates/sw for climate. tldr - forest was cleared by about 2000-1500BC primarily for grazing although some evidence of cereal being grown. However, by 1000-1BC the climate deteriorated and spread of peat led to abandonment of higher moor. Climatic improvement in early medieval times led to re-occupation, but by mid-1300's the population had moved again to better land. Black Death reduced Devon's population by 2/3 and meant that if you survived you went and farmed better land. Farming is still hard on Dartmoor, driven by soil and weather. For example Princetown is 23Km and 400 metres away from Plymouth, but rainfall doubles from about 1000mm to 2000mm per annum.
- rwmj 9y agoAnd connected to Europe too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doggerland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doggerland
- njarboe 9y agoThis planned forest, along with all of Scandinavia and parts of northern Europe, were under solid ice about 18,000 years ago[1]. [1]http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/geography/glacial_landscapes/glaciation_rev1.shtml http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/geography/glacial_...
- vram22 9y agoMan, reading those Asterix comics about Gaul, and the illustrations, I wish I could live in a place like that. I've been in such (deciduous as well as evergreen) forests before, but not lived in them for a long time.
- lewis500 9y agoI grew up in a city southern Appalachia. Only later on when I moved to California did I realize we basically lived in a forest, even in the city. I really miss it, especially the thick mass of sounds... cicadas, birds, frogs. If you stop to listen, you realize there’s just this constant background noise. The only downside is trees fall on your house.
- vram22 9y agoHa, yes. Experienced that. In some tropical forests there can be an incredible level of noise from cicadas and other creatures, at some times of the day.
- lappet 9y agoInteresting you mention that; I am glad there are parts of the US that are like that. I grew up in India, and even the cities have so much non-human life that I miss it incredibly in California, where I am now.
- int_19h 9y agoSeattle metro area is also like that. Seattle proper, not so much; but if you stand in any of the taller buildings in Redmond (e.g. Microsoft campus buildings) and look around from the top floor, you already mostly just see treetops. I live a bit further away in the foothills of the Cascade mountains - but still part of the same metro area if you go by typical commute - and we're in an outright forest; I have a trail cam in my backyard, and routinely get deer and elk and coyotes, and occasionally bears.
- JBlue42 9y agoYeah, when I fly back to NC it feels like I'm landing in Endor vs California. I also sleep much better despite the insect noise than here in the city. Will take cicadas and crickets over helicopters, fire engines, etc. any day.
- patall 9y agoWhile true, this does not mean a forest would be the natural state of the area. Its more likely it would be part of the mammoth steppe if enough megaherbivores would be around. The vast forest only came later when those were all gone.
- tonyedgecombe 9y agoIt would be interesting to see what would happen if we got rid of upland sheep farming.
- TomK32 9y agoThen you could still have intense forestry with foreign species like in Ireland.
- rosser 9y agoIt's less fun to consider that most of the Eastern half of what is now the United States was also a vast forest, until European settlers arrived and clear-cut it, first for agriculture and then for industry. Edit: Yes, the indigenous peoples also cut down trees for agricultural purposes, and even practiced forestry-by-fire. They did so at a radically different scale, however, and it wasn't the loggers' wanton "cut it down and move on to the next patch". To wit: "Timber production soared from one billion board feet in 1840 to 46 billion board feet in 1904... By 1880, lumber had overtaken agriculture as the most important driver of deforestation. By 1920, more than two-thirds of American forests had been leveled at least once, including the vast majority of eastern forests. Timber companies simply harvested the forest and moved on, from the Great Lakes to the South and across the West, leaving behind stumps, fire prone slash and dead or dying lumber towns. Finally, they were stopped by the Pacific Ocean and forced to begin replanting practices." [1] Contrast that with, e.g., "the Cahokia people in Illinois (800-700 BP) cut one million trees to house 25,000 people. They also surrounded the village with a two-mile-long stockade composed of 15,000 oak and hickory logs 21 feet tall. Add all the trees they cut for fuel, and it wasn’t long before the Cahokia had leveled the forest within nine miles of their village." [ibid] There is no reasonable comparison between the strictly localized activities of tribal peoples and industrial logging. [1] https://www.americanforests.org/magazine/article/north-american-forests-in-the-age-of-man/ https://www.americanforests.org/magazine/article/north-ameri...
- josephjrobison 9y ago“Today, 80 percent of New England is covered by forest or thick woods. That is a far cry from the mere 30 to 40 percent that remained forested in most parts of the region in the mid-1800s, after early waves of settlers got done with their vast logging, farming, and leveling operations.“ Source: https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/08/31/new-england-sees-return-forests-and-wildlife/lJRxacvGcHeQDmtZt09WvN/story.html https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/08/31/new-england-see...
- sp332 9y agoNote also that at least New Hampshire has far more tree cover now than it ever did before the deforestation. But we have lost ~100% of our old-growth trees.
- sova 9y agoI'd like to encourage you to take a look at the Fukushima Meltdown area now, year+ later, because the forest reclaims what man tries to tame.
- lovemenot 9y agoI'd like to do so. Do you have any suggested tour route that is interesting safe and legal?
- sova 9y agohttp://metro.co.uk/2015/10/08/nature-reclaims-fukashima-photos-show-how-japanese-nuclear-disaster-zone-became-an-abandoned-wilderness-5428421/ http://metro.co.uk/2015/10/08/nature-reclaims-fukashima-phot...