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Voter ID laws themselves were not declared unconstitutional, the extra actions by the Republicans were. I see no effort from Democrats to offer any option on ho

Voter ID laws themselves were not declared unconstitutional, the extra actions by the Republicans were. I see no effort from Democrats to offer any option on how to secure our elections, which is especially damning considering they've spent the whole last year falsely claiming that they were "hacked". Active election fraud is almost exclusively in the favor of the Democratic party. I can't remember the last time someone on the right was arrested for fraudulently filling out registrations forms, or when >100% of the registered voters in a district voted for the Republican candidate, as happened as recently as the 2016 presidential election in Detroit in the favor of Clinton. The problem isn't voter ID. It's two sides using it as a way to unfairly benefit their interests. One side pre-emptively and the other actively during the vote. Both are wrong, but Voter ID itself isn't.

FireBeyond 9y ago
> Active election fraud is almost exclusively in the favor of the Democratic party. I can't remember the last time someone on the right was arrested A nice key word there, arrested. Especially given that multiple members of Trump's electoral team, even his own family, were found to have violate electoral law and fined. I get it though, they were just "confused" and making "honest mistakes".
- fortythirteen 9y ago
  I think you lack a grasp of the issues. Failing to fill out an FEC form properly and registering dead people to vote are two different things. The former doesn't even affect the vote count. Quit playing for your side and accept when you've read a valid point.
  - FireBeyond 9y ago
    Given that there have been less than 4 instances of people arrested for "registering dead people to vote", your spin of things of this as a "hugely Democrat issue" is mountains out of molehills. > The former doesn't even affect the vote count. Some of the people mentioned in my example _were_ shown to have voted twice. > Quit playing for your side My side? I'm a US permanent resident, I'm not eligible to vote. That doesn't make me blind to the fact there are huge issues with the system here, and fault to be found on both sides of the aisle.
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    Each of the frauds identified in [0] in the 2016 cycle, for which Republicans were criminally charged, affected the vote count. “Quit playing for your side”, indeed. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16118842 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16118842
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > A nice key word there, arrested. Given the Republicans arrested for voter fraud (yes, the kinds that actually affect the vote count) in the 2016 cycle, the more key phrase seems to be “I can't remember”. It's not that it didn't happen, repeatedly and recently, it's just that fortythirteen doesn't remember it, perhaps because it clashes with a preconceived worldview.
SideburnsOfDoom 9y ago
> I can't remember the last time someone on the right was arrested for fraudulently I can, it's this https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/crime-and-courts/2017/07/07/iowa-woman-charged-voting-twice-trump-pleads-guilty/459718001/ https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/crime-and-court...
travmatt 9y ago
You seem to be making several different points here, so lets unpack your claims. >Voter ID laws themselves were not declared unconstitutional, the extra actions by the Republicans were. Wrong, North Carolina's Voter ID laws were declared unconstitutional as they were used to “target African-Americans with almost surgical precision.”[0] >I see no effort from Democrats to offer any option on how to secure our elections, Are you saying the Secure Elections Act[1] doesn't have Democratic sponsors? [1]https://www.lawfareblog.com/assessing-bipartisan-secure-elections-act https://www.lawfareblog.com/assessing-bipartisan-secure-elec... >which is especially damning considering they've spent the whole last year falsely claiming that they were "hacked". Democrats were 'hacked', unless you are claiming that John Podesta, Colin Powell, and the DNC didn't have email accounts that were broken into. I think your strawman claim is that democrats are maintaining that vote counts were altered, which again is a strawman - no one serious is actually making that claim, it would seem you're trying to claim a fringe view as a mainstream (strawmanning). >Active election fraud is almost exclusively in the favor of the Democratic party. That's the typical claim, yes. Your comment is interesting though, since you seem to want to limit the discussion to 'active voter fraud', as opposed to methods that indirectly lead to unfair elections - like voting laws designed to disenfranchise minorities with 'surgical precision'. If we expanded the scope of the discussion, we'd see you're arguments conveniently leave out those methods that Republicans have been using for the past 30+ years. >I can't remember the last time someone on the right was arrested for fraudulently filling out registrations forms, or when >100% of the registered voters in a district voted for the Republican candidate, as happened as recently as the 2016 presidential election in Detroit in the favor of Clinton. You mean those precincts where workers miscounted voters? Didn't the Republican Secretary of State say they were errors, and in any case didn't affect the outcome in the state? Seems like you're fishing. >The problem isn't voter ID. It's two sides using it as a way to unfairly benefit their interests. One side pre-emptively and the other actively during the vote. Both are wrong, but Voter ID itself isn't. It seems like you're closing your argument with 'both sides', and in any case 'both sides' aren't having their voter id laws thrown out in court because they are explicitly being used to drive disenfranchisement. [0]https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/15/us/politics/voter-id-laws-supreme-court-north-carolina.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/15/us/politics/voter-id-laws... [1]https://www.lawfareblog.com/assessing-bipartisan-secure-elections-act https://www.lawfareblog.com/assessing-bipartisan-secure-elec...
dragonwriter 9y ago
> Active election fraud is almost exclusively in the favor of the Democratic party. I can't remember the last time someone on the right was arrested for fraudulently filling out registrations forms How about for actually fraudulently voting someone else's ballot. (Ironically, after publicly making your exact argument about voter fraud being exclusively a Democratic thing.) [0] Or voting twice because of Republican voter fraud claims. [1] Or ballot-box stuffing. [2] All from the 2016 election. [0] https://www.salon.com/2017/03/22/former-colorado-gop-chairman-who-accused-democrats-of-voter-fraud-arrested-for-voter-fraud/ https://www.salon.com/2017/03/22/former-colorado-gop-chairma... [1] https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/crime-and-courts/2017/07/07/iowa-woman-charged-voting-twice-trump-pleads-guilty/459718001/ https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/crime-and-court... [2] https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/gydkk3/the-face-of-voter-fraud-a-florida-grandma-who-voted-republican https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/gydkk3/the-face-of-voter...

FireBeyond 9y ago

> Active election fraud is almost exclusively in the favor of the Democratic party. I can't remember the last time someone on the right was arrested A nice key word there, arrested. Especially given that multiple members of Trump's electoral team, even his own family, were found to have violate electoral law and fined. I get it though, they were just "confused" and making "honest mistakes".

fortythirteen 9y ago
I think you lack a grasp of the issues. Failing to fill out an FEC form properly and registering dead people to vote are two different things. The former doesn't even affect the vote count. Quit playing for your side and accept when you've read a valid point.
- FireBeyond 9y ago
  Given that there have been less than 4 instances of people arrested for "registering dead people to vote", your spin of things of this as a "hugely Democrat issue" is mountains out of molehills. > The former doesn't even affect the vote count. Some of the people mentioned in my example _were_ shown to have voted twice. > Quit playing for your side My side? I'm a US permanent resident, I'm not eligible to vote. That doesn't make me blind to the fact there are huge issues with the system here, and fault to be found on both sides of the aisle.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  Each of the frauds identified in [0] in the 2016 cycle, for which Republicans were criminally charged, affected the vote count. “Quit playing for your side”, indeed. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16118842 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16118842
dragonwriter 9y ago
> A nice key word there, arrested. Given the Republicans arrested for voter fraud (yes, the kinds that actually affect the vote count) in the 2016 cycle, the more key phrase seems to be “I can't remember”. It's not that it didn't happen, repeatedly and recently, it's just that fortythirteen doesn't remember it, perhaps because it clashes with a preconceived worldview.

SideburnsOfDoom 9y ago

> I can't remember the last time someone on the right was arrested for fraudulently I can, it's this https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/crime-and-courts/2017/07/07/iowa-woman-charged-voting-twice-trump-pleads-guilty/459718001/ https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/crime-and-court...

travmatt 9y ago

You seem to be making several different points here, so lets unpack your claims. >Voter ID laws themselves were not declared unconstitutional, the extra actions by the Republicans were. Wrong, North Carolina's Voter ID laws were declared unconstitutional as they were used to “target African-Americans with almost surgical precision.”[0] >I see no effort from Democrats to offer any option on how to secure our elections, Are you saying the Secure Elections Act[1] doesn't have Democratic sponsors? [1]https://www.lawfareblog.com/assessing-bipartisan-secure-elections-act https://www.lawfareblog.com/assessing-bipartisan-secure-elec... >which is especially damning considering they've spent the whole last year falsely claiming that they were "hacked". Democrats were 'hacked', unless you are claiming that John Podesta, Colin Powell, and the DNC didn't have email accounts that were broken into. I think your strawman claim is that democrats are maintaining that vote counts were altered, which again is a strawman - no one serious is actually making that claim, it would seem you're trying to claim a fringe view as a mainstream (strawmanning). >Active election fraud is almost exclusively in the favor of the Democratic party. That's the typical claim, yes. Your comment is interesting though, since you seem to want to limit the discussion to 'active voter fraud', as opposed to methods that indirectly lead to unfair elections - like voting laws designed to disenfranchise minorities with 'surgical precision'. If we expanded the scope of the discussion, we'd see you're arguments conveniently leave out those methods that Republicans have been using for the past 30+ years. >I can't remember the last time someone on the right was arrested for fraudulently filling out registrations forms, or when >100% of the registered voters in a district voted for the Republican candidate, as happened as recently as the 2016 presidential election in Detroit in the favor of Clinton. You mean those precincts where workers miscounted voters? Didn't the Republican Secretary of State say they were errors, and in any case didn't affect the outcome in the state? Seems like you're fishing. >The problem isn't voter ID. It's two sides using it as a way to unfairly benefit their interests. One side pre-emptively and the other actively during the vote. Both are wrong, but Voter ID itself isn't. It seems like you're closing your argument with 'both sides', and in any case 'both sides' aren't having their voter id laws thrown out in court because they are explicitly being used to drive disenfranchisement. [0]https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/15/us/politics/voter-id-laws-supreme-court-north-carolina.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/15/us/politics/voter-id-laws... [1]https://www.lawfareblog.com/assessing-bipartisan-secure-elections-act https://www.lawfareblog.com/assessing-bipartisan-secure-elec...

dragonwriter 9y ago

> Active election fraud is almost exclusively in the favor of the Democratic party. I can't remember the last time someone on the right was arrested for fraudulently filling out registrations forms How about for actually fraudulently voting someone else's ballot. (Ironically, after publicly making your exact argument about voter fraud being exclusively a Democratic thing.) [0] Or voting twice because of Republican voter fraud claims. [1] Or ballot-box stuffing. [2] All from the 2016 election. [0] https://www.salon.com/2017/03/22/former-colorado-gop-chairman-who-accused-democrats-of-voter-fraud-arrested-for-voter-fraud/ https://www.salon.com/2017/03/22/former-colorado-gop-chairma... [1] https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/crime-and-courts/2017/07/07/iowa-woman-charged-voting-twice-trump-pleads-guilty/459718001/ https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/crime-and-court... [2] https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/gydkk3/the-face-of-voter-fraud-a-florida-grandma-who-voted-republican https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/gydkk3/the-face-of-voter...