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As I understand it, there are primarily four things that cause a submission to fall in ranking: flags can affect ranking before enough accumulate that '[flagged

by grzm 9y ago

As I understand it, there are primarily four things that cause a submission to fall in ranking: flags can affect ranking before enough accumulate that '[flagged]' appears; the "overheated discussion detector" which I believe looks at rate of comments and votes can, when triggered, cause down weighting, though given the paucity of both for this submission I suspect it's unlikely; a mod can down-weight it if they feel it's not appropriate for the front page; it's a natural result of its motion relative to the action on other stories. The first three are active, which is likely what you're getting at. From the outside, hard to say which are contributing in any given case.

gnicholas 9y ago
Thanks. I wasn’t aware that a story could be down-weighted as a result of being flagged, without it showing as “flagged”. I’m in the process of building a tool that will detect which stories have been torpedoed (for any reason) so that people don’t miss out on discussions that are popular but deemed inappropriate for HN. It seems a lot of these stories are political in nature.
- ocfx 9y ago
  Well it's more because the title implies sweeping generalizations about conservatives. I think most people, when proven wrong by a fact checker, would be slightly irritated. It's a bait article, not really meant to foster discussion.
- grzm 9y ago
  I do understand and sympathize with the motivation, I'm not sure if that's in keeping with what the mods are hoping to accomplish on HN. The guidelines are quite clear on what's appropriate: > "Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Ideological or political battle or talking points. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic." While the question of what is politics or (even what is appropriate) for HN can be thorny and not always clearly demarcated, actively working against what the mods and the community as a whole are working towards might very well help weaken the fragile strengths HN currently enjoys. It's tough, because I think there are a lot of important topics that need discussing; however, not every forum is well-suited for such discussions. What makes HN valuable for a lot of members is, in part, that there is some curation by mods and members going on. While you mention only showing content so "people don't miss out on discussions", encouraging discussion on the topics can all-too-easily spill over into other threads. I also think it's questionable whether people are really missing out: many political threads continue to be active even when falling off of the front page. I'd love for people to be able to discuss everything reasonably, calmly, and rationally, giving everyone the benefit of the doubt and engaging in good faith. A lot of the social cues and reinforcements that encourage this off-line aren't present on HN by its very nature. If this type of discussion is truly what you want, there are plenty of places online where one can find it. Members sometimes mention they value the opinions of those on HN in particular, that they aren't necessarily present on other fora. One of the reasons for that, in part, is that many on HN are here because of the forum it currently is. Changing that environment can all too easily change the fauna that populate it. Anyway, that's likely more than what you were expecting :) (and Pascal† would likely have something to say about it, too). And you may very well disagree. I encourage you to use HN search to find what 'dang and 'sctb have commented on the subject. They have a lot of experience viewing what happens on HN, what their goals are when "tending the garden", and how they go about doing that, and both because it's interesting, and whether what you're looking to do works with or against those goals. † https://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/04/28/shorter-letter/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/04/28/shorter-letter/
  - gnicholas 9y ago
    I didn't mean the stories are purely political, only that they lie at the edges of what some consider to be too political. I don't think I'm working against the mods on this—mostly it's that some stories seem to disappear, either with or without "flagged" appearing, and I know as a community member I was surprised to see how this could happen (1) quickly and (2) to stories that were previously very popular. I am hoping to build a tool that will enable other people to see what they might be missing, in part so they can partake in these discussions, and in part so they can be more aware of how the system works.

by grzm 9y ago

gnicholas 9y ago

Thanks. I wasn’t aware that a story could be down-weighted as a result of being flagged, without it showing as “flagged”. I’m in the process of building a tool that will detect which stories have been torpedoed (for any reason) so that people don’t miss out on discussions that are popular but deemed inappropriate for HN. It seems a lot of these stories are political in nature.

ocfx 9y ago
Well it's more because the title implies sweeping generalizations about conservatives. I think most people, when proven wrong by a fact checker, would be slightly irritated. It's a bait article, not really meant to foster discussion.
grzm 9y ago
I do understand and sympathize with the motivation, I'm not sure if that's in keeping with what the mods are hoping to accomplish on HN. The guidelines are quite clear on what's appropriate: > "Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Ideological or political battle or talking points. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic." While the question of what is politics or (even what is appropriate) for HN can be thorny and not always clearly demarcated, actively working against what the mods and the community as a whole are working towards might very well help weaken the fragile strengths HN currently enjoys. It's tough, because I think there are a lot of important topics that need discussing; however, not every forum is well-suited for such discussions. What makes HN valuable for a lot of members is, in part, that there is some curation by mods and members going on. While you mention only showing content so "people don't miss out on discussions", encouraging discussion on the topics can all-too-easily spill over into other threads. I also think it's questionable whether people are really missing out: many political threads continue to be active even when falling off of the front page. I'd love for people to be able to discuss everything reasonably, calmly, and rationally, giving everyone the benefit of the doubt and engaging in good faith. A lot of the social cues and reinforcements that encourage this off-line aren't present on HN by its very nature. If this type of discussion is truly what you want, there are plenty of places online where one can find it. Members sometimes mention they value the opinions of those on HN in particular, that they aren't necessarily present on other fora. One of the reasons for that, in part, is that many on HN are here because of the forum it currently is. Changing that environment can all too easily change the fauna that populate it. Anyway, that's likely more than what you were expecting :) (and Pascal† would likely have something to say about it, too). And you may very well disagree. I encourage you to use HN search to find what 'dang and 'sctb have commented on the subject. They have a lot of experience viewing what happens on HN, what their goals are when "tending the garden", and how they go about doing that, and both because it's interesting, and whether what you're looking to do works with or against those goals. † https://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/04/28/shorter-letter/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/04/28/shorter-letter/
- gnicholas 9y ago
  I didn't mean the stories are purely political, only that they lie at the edges of what some consider to be too political. I don't think I'm working against the mods on this—mostly it's that some stories seem to disappear, either with or without "flagged" appearing, and I know as a community member I was surprised to see how this could happen (1) quickly and (2) to stories that were previously very popular. I am hoping to build a tool that will enable other people to see what they might be missing, in part so they can partake in these discussions, and in part so they can be more aware of how the system works.