5 ms·

The Target near my apartment in Brooklyn is not giant, but due to population density it has a ton of registers. Over the holidays, the replaced a sizable chunk

The Target near my apartment in Brooklyn is not giant, but due to population density it has a ton of registers. Over the holidays, the replaced a sizable chunk of these registers with self-checkout kiosks. Although there was a long line to use the self-checkout kiosks, it was a faster and better experience than waiting for a register to open. More importantly, there were still a lot of people working in this section. People were directing customers to registers, guiding people through checkout, and (my favorite) putting things that people left behind back on shelves immediately. Although it was still hard work, the job definitely seemed preferable to standing behind a register and moving things past the scanner. I am still confident that short-term automation will improve environments and turn bottom-tier jobs into more productive roles (in Jack-in-the-Box's case, maintenance teams for the kiosks, software developers to code the kiosks). In the debate about minimum wage increases, a lot of people see automation as a negative. It may hurt in the short-term but we will see a major benefit faster than people assume.

kahnpro 9y ago
One major concern about "turning bottom-tier jobs into more productive roles" is about the number of jobs. If 10,000 cashier jobs gets turned into 1,000 maintenance and guidance jobs, you've still put 90% of your workforce out of work. While I don't think we should artificially protect such bottom-tier jobs, this transformation is still going to be very disruptive.
- jnet 9y ago
  The other problem is that the 10,000 cashiers likely won't be qualified to fill the 1,000 maintenance/programming positions.
  - dagw 9y ago
    We're not talking about programming the machines, we're talking about walking people through how to use the machines, help customers troubleshoot when somethings go wrong and knowing where to kick the machines when they crash. You'll easily find 1000 people qualified to do that among your 10k cashiers.
- w0m 9y ago
  Which then freeze up 9,000 low-skilled workers to do ~anything else that was impractical 5 years ago. 98% of US population used to be farmers for sustainability. Automation of farming freed up that workforce, today only 2% of the population directly farms. That (insanely high) percentage of displaced workforce is what allowed other other industries to spring up. Yes, jobs don't exist for those 9k workers - but the workforce being freed is exciting as it opens up entire potential markets that were simply impractical prior. There will always be growing pains - how do you retrain a cashier to be ~anything else? Same with Toll Booth workers on highways and the like, what else will those people do? But that's where the Govt should step in, ease the point edges of progress. Free market is great, but it does leave significant portions of individuals behind in the shortrun.
  - taoistextremist 9y ago
    The one hopeful thing is that maybe this will take down real production costs of stuff so their ability to buy things will grow, but they'd still need assistance if they can't find any job. I think if you don't want to leave those people behind (you don't, it's societally disruptive to have a bunch of unemployed people who used to be able to kind of support themselves) government bodies need to step in and sponsor more retraining programs.
  - 0xffff2 9y ago
    > Yes, jobs don't exist for those 9k workers - but the workforce being freed is exciting as it opens up entire potential markets that were simply impractical prior. Like what? Name a single potential market that exists today, and is being held back by a lack of unskilled or semi-skilled labor. When people moved off of the farms, it was because there were factory jobs to be had in the cities. It was possible to see where people would end up even before farming automation made most farmers unnecessary. As far as I can see, no such transition is apparent today. Unskilled workers are being made redundant with no new labor market to take them. Some of these workers may get some training and become developers and robot mechanics, but many unskilled workers can't make that jump for whatever reason. It's not realistic to expect all of these people to become skilled workers.
- setgree 9y ago
  "While I don't think we should artificially protect such bottom-tier jobs, this transformation is still going to be very disruptive." There is no need to artificially preserve such jobs, the market provides for them just fine. What threatens such jobs, at least today in California, is price controls on labor.
prklmn 9y ago
We as consumers will see no gains from using self service checkouts. I am doing the job that someone once did for me so that Target can make more money. Those efficiency gains for Target are a direct burden on me. Also, I’d argue that self checkout is not faster than having someone checkout and someone bag for me, maybe it seemed faster in that scenario, but it’s unliekly faster in general.
- taoistextremist 9y ago
  I'd argue that's a lag in price, though. Even if Target doesn't lower their prices, as self-checkouts get more and more ubiquitous (I mean, they kind of have, but they aren't necessarily the standard), if a Target competitor wants to lower their prices to steal customers it's now easier to do so because they're making more money as well. The lack of benefit to the consumer is due to the lack of competition, but with adequate competition this technology would definitely bring down prices.
- _rutinerad 9y ago
  1 self checkout terminal is usually not faster than 1 cashier. But 1 cash register is usually replaced with multiple self checkout terminals and then the process is definitely sped up. Mainly due more bandwidth to mitigate slow customer bottlenecks. Especially when the self checkout is the kind where you scan the groceries while shopping and don’t need to re-bag them.
- dagw 9y ago
  The time from when you start the checkout procedure until you leave the store is probably not faster on average. However since you can have six checkout machines in a space that used to have one checkout person the time from when you get in line until you leave the store is quite likely a lot faster.
- bluGill 9y ago
  When I don't have to wait for the person in front of me to figure out which pack of gum to get, and then find her checkbook... A well trained cashier is faster than me once I get to the front of the line (particularly when I have fresh produce - I don't know which code to type in), but with self checkout I'm generally faster overall just because I don't wait as long in line.
samfriedman 9y ago
My favorite version of self-checkout is the ScanIt program that the grocery chain Stop & Shop offers. Using my smartphone, I can scan barcodes of items I put in my cart as I shop. At the self-checkout, I simply scan a QR code from my phone to load all my scanned items into the register. Any additional items like produce can be weighed and added at checkout, or I can use a barcode-printing scale while I shop. Then I simply scan any coupons and swipe my card to pay. This means I can sort and bag my groceries into reusable bags as I shop, with no need to first put everything in my cart and then remove it all at checkout only to put it back in my cart again. I just grab and scan what I need, then pay and walk out. Employees will randomly check a sample of my cart once in a while (I've been checked maybe three times in a year) to make sure I'm not hiding anything I haven't paid for. It's a fantastic system and has made my grocery trips hugely more time-efficient.

kahnpro 9y ago

One major concern about "turning bottom-tier jobs into more productive roles" is about the number of jobs. If 10,000 cashier jobs gets turned into 1,000 maintenance and guidance jobs, you've still put 90% of your workforce out of work. While I don't think we should artificially protect such bottom-tier jobs, this transformation is still going to be very disruptive.

jnet 9y ago
The other problem is that the 10,000 cashiers likely won't be qualified to fill the 1,000 maintenance/programming positions.
- dagw 9y ago
  We're not talking about programming the machines, we're talking about walking people through how to use the machines, help customers troubleshoot when somethings go wrong and knowing where to kick the machines when they crash. You'll easily find 1000 people qualified to do that among your 10k cashiers.
w0m 9y ago
Which then freeze up 9,000 low-skilled workers to do ~anything else that was impractical 5 years ago. 98% of US population used to be farmers for sustainability. Automation of farming freed up that workforce, today only 2% of the population directly farms. That (insanely high) percentage of displaced workforce is what allowed other other industries to spring up. Yes, jobs don't exist for those 9k workers - but the workforce being freed is exciting as it opens up entire potential markets that were simply impractical prior. There will always be growing pains - how do you retrain a cashier to be ~anything else? Same with Toll Booth workers on highways and the like, what else will those people do? But that's where the Govt should step in, ease the point edges of progress. Free market is great, but it does leave significant portions of individuals behind in the shortrun.
- taoistextremist 9y ago
  The one hopeful thing is that maybe this will take down real production costs of stuff so their ability to buy things will grow, but they'd still need assistance if they can't find any job. I think if you don't want to leave those people behind (you don't, it's societally disruptive to have a bunch of unemployed people who used to be able to kind of support themselves) government bodies need to step in and sponsor more retraining programs.
- 0xffff2 9y ago
  > Yes, jobs don't exist for those 9k workers - but the workforce being freed is exciting as it opens up entire potential markets that were simply impractical prior. Like what? Name a single potential market that exists today, and is being held back by a lack of unskilled or semi-skilled labor. When people moved off of the farms, it was because there were factory jobs to be had in the cities. It was possible to see where people would end up even before farming automation made most farmers unnecessary. As far as I can see, no such transition is apparent today. Unskilled workers are being made redundant with no new labor market to take them. Some of these workers may get some training and become developers and robot mechanics, but many unskilled workers can't make that jump for whatever reason. It's not realistic to expect all of these people to become skilled workers.
setgree 9y ago
"While I don't think we should artificially protect such bottom-tier jobs, this transformation is still going to be very disruptive." There is no need to artificially preserve such jobs, the market provides for them just fine. What threatens such jobs, at least today in California, is price controls on labor.

prklmn 9y ago

We as consumers will see no gains from using self service checkouts. I am doing the job that someone once did for me so that Target can make more money. Those efficiency gains for Target are a direct burden on me. Also, I’d argue that self checkout is not faster than having someone checkout and someone bag for me, maybe it seemed faster in that scenario, but it’s unliekly faster in general.

taoistextremist 9y ago
I'd argue that's a lag in price, though. Even if Target doesn't lower their prices, as self-checkouts get more and more ubiquitous (I mean, they kind of have, but they aren't necessarily the standard), if a Target competitor wants to lower their prices to steal customers it's now easier to do so because they're making more money as well. The lack of benefit to the consumer is due to the lack of competition, but with adequate competition this technology would definitely bring down prices.
_rutinerad 9y ago
1 self checkout terminal is usually not faster than 1 cashier. But 1 cash register is usually replaced with multiple self checkout terminals and then the process is definitely sped up. Mainly due more bandwidth to mitigate slow customer bottlenecks. Especially when the self checkout is the kind where you scan the groceries while shopping and don’t need to re-bag them.
dagw 9y ago
The time from when you start the checkout procedure until you leave the store is probably not faster on average. However since you can have six checkout machines in a space that used to have one checkout person the time from when you get in line until you leave the store is quite likely a lot faster.
bluGill 9y ago
When I don't have to wait for the person in front of me to figure out which pack of gum to get, and then find her checkbook... A well trained cashier is faster than me once I get to the front of the line (particularly when I have fresh produce - I don't know which code to type in), but with self checkout I'm generally faster overall just because I don't wait as long in line.

samfriedman 9y ago

My favorite version of self-checkout is the ScanIt program that the grocery chain Stop & Shop offers. Using my smartphone, I can scan barcodes of items I put in my cart as I shop. At the self-checkout, I simply scan a QR code from my phone to load all my scanned items into the register. Any additional items like produce can be weighed and added at checkout, or I can use a barcode-printing scale while I shop. Then I simply scan any coupons and swipe my card to pay. This means I can sort and bag my groceries into reusable bags as I shop, with no need to first put everything in my cart and then remove it all at checkout only to put it back in my cart again. I just grab and scan what I need, then pay and walk out. Employees will randomly check a sample of my cart once in a while (I've been checked maybe three times in a year) to make sure I'm not hiding anything I haven't paid for. It's a fantastic system and has made my grocery trips hugely more time-efficient.