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I was recently shocked to learn that you cannot buy "dumb" TVs from any of the major brands any longer. The only source I was able to find were random brands f

by lamlam 9y ago

I was recently shocked to learn that you cannot buy "dumb" TVs from any of the major brands any longer. The only source I was able to find were random brands from China, and commercial displays from companies like NEC. Unfortunately commercial displays are optimized for longevity and not picture quality :/ If anyone knows where I can get a decent dumb TV please share.

cbg0 9y ago
You don't have to connect it to the Internet if you don't trust it, it's still going to work as a TV.
- adamtulinius 9y ago
  And still likely to be awful in one way or the other. I got one of Samsung's top model TV's back in 2013, and after a year (or so) some update caused it to start crashing randomly, no matter the input source (and daily with the Netflix app it comes with) Yes, chrashes/hangs even with HDMI input sources, where the interface just hangs after adjusting the volume. But that's just an anecdote.
  - praneshp 9y ago
    After owning the S2, S3, S4, a couple of Notes, and a Gear S3 watch, I have concluded that Samsung is incredibly bad at software. If my plan is not to wipe the device and use some OS I want to (like in my pre-Note devices), I'll stay far far away. For a TV, I got a TCL Roku TV this past Thanksgiving (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06Y6FSV5Q/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06Y6FSV5Q/). It's been pretty good, because TCL just made the hardware (and is good at it), and the OS is Roku. I've heard complaints about it but (and myself find some features very rigid) but Roku's interface is simple and stable. I haven't had an app or the OS crash on me in a month or so.
    - wvenable 9y ago
      As a hardware manufacturer, Samsung is actually better than most at software. Their software isn't that bad.
pjc50 9y ago
> random brands from China Those are the best products! :)
- walterbell 9y ago
  We need a git repo with known-good generic brands, preferably that can be flashed with open firmware. Any recommendations?
- lamlam 9y ago
  Yes, but they can be hit or miss, and I simply don't have the time or funds to be testing multiple models.
navaati 9y ago
Buy a computer screen. For example Dell P4317Q, it's a 43" 4K screen, about 1000€ (a bit less), gorgeous. It's the closest you can get.
- semi-extrinsic 9y ago
  I use one as my main monitor, it's very good. Every time I upgrade my monitor size, it's irreversible since the claustrophobia of using a smaller display increases.
  - walterbell 9y ago
    What viewing distance do you use?
    - michaelbuckbee 9y ago
      Jumping in here, but I use a 55" curved 4k Samsung as a monitor (per recommendation of my optometrist). I stand around 40" from the center of the screen.
      - walterbell 9y ago
        Did the optometrist say why that size and curvature specifically?
        michaelbuckbee 9y ago
        No, that was more me playing around with what would work (I started with a 4k 42" Seiki TV and this was the upgrade. At sizes larger than 40" the curved screen really helps you with better seeing the corners of the screen without having to lean.
    - semi-extrinsic 9y ago
      It varies a bit between sitting and standing, but about 100 cm to the closest point. To the furthest corner it's another 20 cm.
epmaybe 9y ago
What if you put the smart TV in game mode? Doesn't that turn off all the features/post processing?
- mstade 9y ago
  Depends on the set probably, but in my experience most TVs still do some processing.
- Crespyl 9y ago
  You may or may not be able to get rid of some or all of the image processing, but you still have all the other issues of a "smart" TV, like auto updates/ads/tracking/infection and other problems that come with having too much cheap software where it doesn't belong.
  - slobotron 9y ago
    Is it not possible to just not connect it to the Internet?
    - bradyd 9y ago
      With some smart TVs, no. For example some Vizio TVs require you to install the Vizio app on your phone (you must allow location tracking) and connect over WiFi before you can even finish the setup process.
      - wernercd 9y ago
        What's to stop you from disconnecting it after setup? I've got newer Vizio's with Chromecasts connected to them... no issues with them being disconnected.
    - Crespyl 9y ago
      Usually, but some won't let you finish set up without some internet access. Even if you do keep it disconnected, there's no guarantee that a badly behaved update process or app won't interfere with the normal operation in some way. I'm sure there do exist models that are perfectly fine in offline mode, but it's still a lot of (very opaque) room for things to go wrong in ways that a "dumb" display won't have.
neilsimp1 9y ago
I'd be interested to know as well. I bought a 50" Emerson "dumb" TV a few years ago, and anytime I consider upgrading all I ever see is smart TVs. I plug the TV into a HTPC so I really don't need any smart TV feature, ever.
walterbell 9y ago
Buy a projector.
- barrkel 9y ago
  This is the way I went as well. One of the best purchasing decisions I've made in the past decade.
saiya-jin 9y ago
I recently bought used 55" Sony for relative peanuts, and it was really simple - don't ever connect it to internet. There is really nothing valuable that Android TV could get from manufacturer these days, only potential issues. Maybe for me it's easier since I just use it as PC projector and watch content from it, don't have set top box connected to it at all.
kitsunesoba 9y ago
It’s been my belief for a while now that there’s a market for premium dumb TVs. They would: - Use high end best binned panels (lowest possible image retention for OLED, etc) - Traditional LCD models would have very high standards for backlight consistency - Do little to no image processing - Be designed around being hooked up to external media boxes - Have a nice modern OSD text - Allow you to use your phone as a remote via Bluetooth (and control other media center components via IR cables and HDMI commands) - Not have any means of internet connection or any other smart functionality whatsoever Effectively, they’d be to TVs as studio monitor headphones are to audio. Enthusiasts would jump all over something like this despite inflated prices, I have no doubt.
- josteink 9y ago
  > Effectively, they’d be to TVs as studio monitor headphones are to audio. Enthusiasts would jump all over something like this despite inflated prices, I have no doubt. Have several studio monitors. Can confirm.
- gnode 9y ago
  This exists, for the most part, but is prohibitively expensive. Sony's Trimaster EL OLED range for instance. Why it is so expensive, (compared to consumer OLED TVs) I don't know.
- clairity 9y ago
  the reason the premium consumer market doesn't sell dumb TVs is that it would wring all of the profits out of selling TVs. consumer electronics companies want to be seen as "adding value" on top of the display. if they don't, then manufacturers can just go direct to consumer, cutting them out of the value chain and redirecting profits to the manufacturers (and some to consumers in the form of lower prices). if they priced dumb TVs higher than their smart TVs, it would signal the negative value of the "smarts" in the TV, so they don't want to do that. so none of the electronics manufacturers really want to sell dumb TVs to the mass market, since it would be akin to committing corporate suicide (in that particular product category). of course one way around this is to brand a technical feature (as with sony's trinitron back in the day) and make that carry the value premium in the dumb TV, which would be how you'd approach the enthusiast segment you mention.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
mikewhy 9y ago
I bought an LG TV recently, the only "smart" thing about it is Google Cast is baked in, which I think is acceptable. The only reason I want a dumb TV is to hook up an apple tv / google cast / computer running airserver.
- lamlam 9y ago
  While there are a few TVs like that out there, I'm always worried they might pull what Visio did and essentially put their own stupid UI on top much later [0]. [0] https://www.theverge.com/2017/8/2/16083238/vizio-smartcast-remote-google-cast-tv-apps-interface-update-roll-out https://www.theverge.com/2017/8/2/16083238/vizio-smartcast-r...

by lamlam 9y ago

cbg0 9y ago

You don't have to connect it to the Internet if you don't trust it, it's still going to work as a TV.

adamtulinius 9y ago
And still likely to be awful in one way or the other. I got one of Samsung's top model TV's back in 2013, and after a year (or so) some update caused it to start crashing randomly, no matter the input source (and daily with the Netflix app it comes with) Yes, chrashes/hangs even with HDMI input sources, where the interface just hangs after adjusting the volume. But that's just an anecdote.
- praneshp 9y ago
  After owning the S2, S3, S4, a couple of Notes, and a Gear S3 watch, I have concluded that Samsung is incredibly bad at software. If my plan is not to wipe the device and use some OS I want to (like in my pre-Note devices), I'll stay far far away. For a TV, I got a TCL Roku TV this past Thanksgiving (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06Y6FSV5Q/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06Y6FSV5Q/). It's been pretty good, because TCL just made the hardware (and is good at it), and the OS is Roku. I've heard complaints about it but (and myself find some features very rigid) but Roku's interface is simple and stable. I haven't had an app or the OS crash on me in a month or so.
  - wvenable 9y ago
    As a hardware manufacturer, Samsung is actually better than most at software. Their software isn't that bad.

pjc50 9y ago

> random brands from China Those are the best products! :)

walterbell 9y ago
We need a git repo with known-good generic brands, preferably that can be flashed with open firmware. Any recommendations?
lamlam 9y ago
Yes, but they can be hit or miss, and I simply don't have the time or funds to be testing multiple models.

navaati 9y ago

Buy a computer screen. For example Dell P4317Q, it's a 43" 4K screen, about 1000€ (a bit less), gorgeous. It's the closest you can get.

semi-extrinsic 9y ago
I use one as my main monitor, it's very good. Every time I upgrade my monitor size, it's irreversible since the claustrophobia of using a smaller display increases.
- walterbell 9y ago
  What viewing distance do you use?
  - michaelbuckbee 9y ago
    Jumping in here, but I use a 55" curved 4k Samsung as a monitor (per recommendation of my optometrist). I stand around 40" from the center of the screen.
    - walterbell 9y ago
      Did the optometrist say why that size and curvature specifically?
      - michaelbuckbee 9y ago
        No, that was more me playing around with what would work (I started with a 4k 42" Seiki TV and this was the upgrade. At sizes larger than 40" the curved screen really helps you with better seeing the corners of the screen without having to lean.
  - semi-extrinsic 9y ago
    It varies a bit between sitting and standing, but about 100 cm to the closest point. To the furthest corner it's another 20 cm.

epmaybe 9y ago

What if you put the smart TV in game mode? Doesn't that turn off all the features/post processing?

mstade 9y ago
Depends on the set probably, but in my experience most TVs still do some processing.
Crespyl 9y ago
You may or may not be able to get rid of some or all of the image processing, but you still have all the other issues of a "smart" TV, like auto updates/ads/tracking/infection and other problems that come with having too much cheap software where it doesn't belong.
- slobotron 9y ago
  Is it not possible to just not connect it to the Internet?
  - bradyd 9y ago
    With some smart TVs, no. For example some Vizio TVs require you to install the Vizio app on your phone (you must allow location tracking) and connect over WiFi before you can even finish the setup process.
    - wernercd 9y ago
      What's to stop you from disconnecting it after setup? I've got newer Vizio's with Chromecasts connected to them... no issues with them being disconnected.
  - Crespyl 9y ago
    Usually, but some won't let you finish set up without some internet access. Even if you do keep it disconnected, there's no guarantee that a badly behaved update process or app won't interfere with the normal operation in some way. I'm sure there do exist models that are perfectly fine in offline mode, but it's still a lot of (very opaque) room for things to go wrong in ways that a "dumb" display won't have.

neilsimp1 9y ago

I'd be interested to know as well. I bought a 50" Emerson "dumb" TV a few years ago, and anytime I consider upgrading all I ever see is smart TVs. I plug the TV into a HTPC so I really don't need any smart TV feature, ever.

walterbell 9y ago

Buy a projector.

barrkel 9y ago
This is the way I went as well. One of the best purchasing decisions I've made in the past decade.

saiya-jin 9y ago

I recently bought used 55" Sony for relative peanuts, and it was really simple - don't ever connect it to internet. There is really nothing valuable that Android TV could get from manufacturer these days, only potential issues. Maybe for me it's easier since I just use it as PC projector and watch content from it, don't have set top box connected to it at all.

kitsunesoba 9y ago

It’s been my belief for a while now that there’s a market for premium dumb TVs. They would: - Use high end best binned panels (lowest possible image retention for OLED, etc) - Traditional LCD models would have very high standards for backlight consistency - Do little to no image processing - Be designed around being hooked up to external media boxes - Have a nice modern OSD text - Allow you to use your phone as a remote via Bluetooth (and control other media center components via IR cables and HDMI commands) - Not have any means of internet connection or any other smart functionality whatsoever Effectively, they’d be to TVs as studio monitor headphones are to audio. Enthusiasts would jump all over something like this despite inflated prices, I have no doubt.

josteink 9y ago
> Effectively, they’d be to TVs as studio monitor headphones are to audio. Enthusiasts would jump all over something like this despite inflated prices, I have no doubt. Have several studio monitors. Can confirm.
gnode 9y ago
This exists, for the most part, but is prohibitively expensive. Sony's Trimaster EL OLED range for instance. Why it is so expensive, (compared to consumer OLED TVs) I don't know.
clairity 9y ago
the reason the premium consumer market doesn't sell dumb TVs is that it would wring all of the profits out of selling TVs. consumer electronics companies want to be seen as "adding value" on top of the display. if they don't, then manufacturers can just go direct to consumer, cutting them out of the value chain and redirecting profits to the manufacturers (and some to consumers in the form of lower prices). if they priced dumb TVs higher than their smart TVs, it would signal the negative value of the "smarts" in the TV, so they don't want to do that. so none of the electronics manufacturers really want to sell dumb TVs to the mass market, since it would be akin to committing corporate suicide (in that particular product category). of course one way around this is to brand a technical feature (as with sony's trinitron back in the day) and make that carry the value premium in the dumb TV, which would be how you'd approach the enthusiast segment you mention.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

mikewhy 9y ago

I bought an LG TV recently, the only "smart" thing about it is Google Cast is baked in, which I think is acceptable. The only reason I want a dumb TV is to hook up an apple tv / google cast / computer running airserver.

lamlam 9y ago
While there are a few TVs like that out there, I'm always worried they might pull what Visio did and essentially put their own stupid UI on top much later [0]. [0] https://www.theverge.com/2017/8/2/16083238/vizio-smartcast-remote-google-cast-tv-apps-interface-update-roll-out https://www.theverge.com/2017/8/2/16083238/vizio-smartcast-r...