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I cannot talk about China, but in Germany the classic children's book "Der Struwwelpeter" is to my knowledge still quite popular and often read to children: Ge

I cannot talk about China, but in Germany the classic children's book "Der Struwwelpeter" is to my knowledge still quite popular and often read to children: German original: > http://sternchenland.com/downloads/unsortiertes/Der%20Struwwelpeter%20-%20Heinrich%20Hofmann.pdf http://sternchenland.com/downloads/unsortiertes/Der%20Struww... English translation > https://archive.org/details/englishstruwwelp00hoffrich https://archive.org/details/englishstruwwelp00hoffrich (note that you should prefer to read this in German if you can, since lots of subtleties are lost in the English adaption). Here is a movie adaption of this book (in German) - note that they added an epilogue at the end where all stories still come to a happy end: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpcPz-GvHYI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpcPz-GvHYI In particular consider the third ("Die gar traurige Geschichte mit dem Feuerzeug"/"The dreadful story about Harriet and the matches"; 16:54 in the video) and the sixth ("Die Geschichte vom Daumenlutscher"/"The story of little thumb-a-suck"; 13:38 in the video) story to see why this might be somewhat different from what I consider as a typical US-American children's book from my non-US perspective. :-)

projectramo 9y ago
English children's stories were also quite dark before the industrial revolution. In fact, I have read, that there wasn't much of a distinction between the appropriate subject matter for children and adults. After the industrial revolution, with nuclear families moving to cities, and education suddenly becoming more important and children being moved out of the labor force, the idea of "childhood" as a uniquely innocent period was invented. A lot of the sanitized fairy tales we read have very dark origins.
- wolfgke 9y ago
  > A lot of the sanitized fairy tales we read have very dark origins. I still consider lots of fairy tales that I was told as a child as very dark (I don't mean the idyllic world "Disney" versions). For example in the Grimm version of Cinderella the evil sisters cut cut away their heels and toes with a knife to fit in the shoe and at the end the pigeons peck the eyes of the evil sisters (see http://gutenberg.spiegel.de/buch/-6248/16 http://gutenberg.spiegel.de/buch/-6248/16). Or in "The red shoes" by Hans Christian Andersen the little girl protagonist prompts the headman to chop her feet (wearing the red shoes) to get rid of the shoes. Edit: or Snow White: At the end the evil stepmother has to dance in red-hot iron shoes at the daughjter's wedding until she dies (see http://gutenberg.spiegel.de/buch/-6248/16 http://gutenberg.spiegel.de/buch/-6248/16)
  - projectramo 9y ago
    Yes, exactly. Those made it over to the English version in the old days. It would be interesting to learn why the German version retains the darkness. Maybe its because Germans get to/are encouraged to read it in the original.
    - wolfgke 9y ago
      > It would be interesting to learn why the German version retains the darkness. Because this is the version that the Brothers Grimm wrote down. I am nevertheless aware that there exist other (sometimes even darker) versions of the fairy tales than the versions written down by the Brothers Grimm. In this sense the versions of the Brothers Grimm are not "the original", but some version of the fairy tales (this is the difference between "Volksmärchen" (folk tales) and Kunstmärchen (literary fairy stories) - only for the letter one there exist some concept of "the original"). So I would say that Grimm brothers versions of the fairy tales conserved the zeitgeist of the beginning of the 19th century and there exists to my knowledge no other popular collection of German original language folk fairy tales. But of course today there exist translations of collections of folk fairy tales from different language areas.
nakedrobot2 9y ago
Speaking of "The dreadful story of harriet and the matches". There is a wonderful band called the Tiger Lillies who perform a song about this story: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddcRDGgKVys https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddcRDGgKVys It's a retelling of the story from the perspective of the cat, who is watching Harriet burning to death. Good healthy black humor :) If you ever have a chance to see this band play live, they are really weird, obscene, entertaining folks.

projectramo 9y ago

English children's stories were also quite dark before the industrial revolution. In fact, I have read, that there wasn't much of a distinction between the appropriate subject matter for children and adults. After the industrial revolution, with nuclear families moving to cities, and education suddenly becoming more important and children being moved out of the labor force, the idea of "childhood" as a uniquely innocent period was invented. A lot of the sanitized fairy tales we read have very dark origins.

wolfgke 9y ago
> A lot of the sanitized fairy tales we read have very dark origins. I still consider lots of fairy tales that I was told as a child as very dark (I don't mean the idyllic world "Disney" versions). For example in the Grimm version of Cinderella the evil sisters cut cut away their heels and toes with a knife to fit in the shoe and at the end the pigeons peck the eyes of the evil sisters (see http://gutenberg.spiegel.de/buch/-6248/16 http://gutenberg.spiegel.de/buch/-6248/16). Or in "The red shoes" by Hans Christian Andersen the little girl protagonist prompts the headman to chop her feet (wearing the red shoes) to get rid of the shoes. Edit: or Snow White: At the end the evil stepmother has to dance in red-hot iron shoes at the daughjter's wedding until she dies (see http://gutenberg.spiegel.de/buch/-6248/16 http://gutenberg.spiegel.de/buch/-6248/16)
- projectramo 9y ago
  Yes, exactly. Those made it over to the English version in the old days. It would be interesting to learn why the German version retains the darkness. Maybe its because Germans get to/are encouraged to read it in the original.
  - wolfgke 9y ago
    > It would be interesting to learn why the German version retains the darkness. Because this is the version that the Brothers Grimm wrote down. I am nevertheless aware that there exist other (sometimes even darker) versions of the fairy tales than the versions written down by the Brothers Grimm. In this sense the versions of the Brothers Grimm are not "the original", but some version of the fairy tales (this is the difference between "Volksmärchen" (folk tales) and Kunstmärchen (literary fairy stories) - only for the letter one there exist some concept of "the original"). So I would say that Grimm brothers versions of the fairy tales conserved the zeitgeist of the beginning of the 19th century and there exists to my knowledge no other popular collection of German original language folk fairy tales. But of course today there exist translations of collections of folk fairy tales from different language areas.

nakedrobot2 9y ago

Speaking of "The dreadful story of harriet and the matches". There is a wonderful band called the Tiger Lillies who perform a song about this story: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddcRDGgKVys https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddcRDGgKVys It's a retelling of the story from the perspective of the cat, who is watching Harriet burning to death. Good healthy black humor :) If you ever have a chance to see this band play live, they are really weird, obscene, entertaining folks.