5 ms·

They're still a risk. Not knowing the rules can cause a motorist who did absolutely nothing wrong to kill said cyclist or swerve away from the cyclist and kill

by lagadu 9y ago

They're still a risk. Not knowing the rules can cause a motorist who did absolutely nothing wrong to kill said cyclist or swerve away from the cyclist and kill someone else not even involved, all because of a negligent cyclist. That said, demanding a license for cyclists I agree is completely unreasonable.

papermule 9y ago
Could you add some more explanation here? What is unreasonable about it?
- brewdad 9y ago
  What is the actual gain to society from requiring a cyclist license? Today, without licenses, police can and do hand out moving violations to cyclists. Today, drivers who have their license revoked or car impounded still find ways to drive cars, at least in the US. The barrier to picking up a new bike after having yours impounded by police is far lower. If it's forcing a baseline requirement for skills and knowledge, well we've already seen how well that's worked out for drivers (most drivers suck at it). Licensing cyclists seems like a feel good idea to make things "fair". The fact is, things can never be fair between to such disparate classes of vehicles. Can someone explain how a world with licensed cyclists would be fundamentally different than today?
  - papermule 9y ago
    > What is the actual gain to society from requiring a cyclist license? Today, without licenses, police can and do hand out moving violations to cyclists. I could, as someone who doesn't have a driving license, or has never learned to drive, go out on the road with my bicycle and more or less ride whenever and wherever I like. I don't know what any of the road signs mean and I have no experience or training in hazard perception and collision avoidance. The law doesn't require me to. If I tried to do the same thing in a car I'd be arrested.
    - brewdad 9y ago
      If you choose to venture out onto the roads with no idea what the signs mean or how to avoid obstacles, good luck to you. Realistically, every 5 year old knows what the colors on a traffic light mean and what a stop sign tells you.
      - papermule 9y ago
        There are many more rules that just red, yellow green and the stop sign. It would be nice if the highway code was that simple though. For example, how to navigate a busy multi-lane roundabout safely as a cyclist, such as Old Street roundabout in London, which looks like this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/Old_Street_Roundabout_from_above_in_2012.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/Old_Stre..., or this roundabout in Bristol, UK: http://c8.alamy.com/comp/B2NMCH/aerial-view-looking-down-on-traffic-and-st-james-barton-roundabout-B2NMCH.jpg http://c8.alamy.com/comp/B2NMCH/aerial-view-looking-down-on-...
        brewdad 9y ago
        Driver or cyclist, if you fail to navigate that intersection safely and correctly you will be cited (or injured or killed). How does requiring a license for cyclists solve this problem? You mentioned that driving without a license will get you arrested. This is true, but only after you've committed a violation, unless your country has random driver's license checkpoints (mine doesn't). We can already cite cyclists for moving violations today. Licensing doesn't change anything.
        papermule 9y ago
        > How does requiring a license for cyclists solve this problem? Well, would you argue that requiring a license for motor vehicles is unnecessary? The benefits should be similar and identifiable.
    - scatters 9y ago
      The law does require you to understand road signs and behave accordingly. It doesn't require you to get a piece of paper from a bureaucrat to attest to it. I very much doubt that you would be arrested if you tried to drive a car without a license. Anecdotally, I've never had my driving license checked by a traffic officer. The large number of undocumented residents who are presumptively driving without a valid license is another point.
jackvalentine 9y ago
In my country all school children are taught the rules of the road at traffic school where they ride their bikes around a miniature road layout that comprises of most road scenarios.
- Sean1708 9y ago
  To be fair that happens in Britain too, or at least it did at both my primary and secondary school.

by lagadu 9y ago

papermule 9y ago

Could you add some more explanation here? What is unreasonable about it?

brewdad 9y ago
What is the actual gain to society from requiring a cyclist license? Today, without licenses, police can and do hand out moving violations to cyclists. Today, drivers who have their license revoked or car impounded still find ways to drive cars, at least in the US. The barrier to picking up a new bike after having yours impounded by police is far lower. If it's forcing a baseline requirement for skills and knowledge, well we've already seen how well that's worked out for drivers (most drivers suck at it). Licensing cyclists seems like a feel good idea to make things "fair". The fact is, things can never be fair between to such disparate classes of vehicles. Can someone explain how a world with licensed cyclists would be fundamentally different than today?
- papermule 9y ago
  > What is the actual gain to society from requiring a cyclist license? Today, without licenses, police can and do hand out moving violations to cyclists. I could, as someone who doesn't have a driving license, or has never learned to drive, go out on the road with my bicycle and more or less ride whenever and wherever I like. I don't know what any of the road signs mean and I have no experience or training in hazard perception and collision avoidance. The law doesn't require me to. If I tried to do the same thing in a car I'd be arrested.
  - brewdad 9y ago
    If you choose to venture out onto the roads with no idea what the signs mean or how to avoid obstacles, good luck to you. Realistically, every 5 year old knows what the colors on a traffic light mean and what a stop sign tells you.
    - papermule 9y ago
      There are many more rules that just red, yellow green and the stop sign. It would be nice if the highway code was that simple though. For example, how to navigate a busy multi-lane roundabout safely as a cyclist, such as Old Street roundabout in London, which looks like this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/Old_Street_Roundabout_from_above_in_2012.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/Old_Stre..., or this roundabout in Bristol, UK: http://c8.alamy.com/comp/B2NMCH/aerial-view-looking-down-on-traffic-and-st-james-barton-roundabout-B2NMCH.jpg http://c8.alamy.com/comp/B2NMCH/aerial-view-looking-down-on-...
      - brewdad 9y ago
        Driver or cyclist, if you fail to navigate that intersection safely and correctly you will be cited (or injured or killed). How does requiring a license for cyclists solve this problem? You mentioned that driving without a license will get you arrested. This is true, but only after you've committed a violation, unless your country has random driver's license checkpoints (mine doesn't). We can already cite cyclists for moving violations today. Licensing doesn't change anything.
        papermule 9y ago
        > How does requiring a license for cyclists solve this problem? Well, would you argue that requiring a license for motor vehicles is unnecessary? The benefits should be similar and identifiable.
  - scatters 9y ago
    The law does require you to understand road signs and behave accordingly. It doesn't require you to get a piece of paper from a bureaucrat to attest to it. I very much doubt that you would be arrested if you tried to drive a car without a license. Anecdotally, I've never had my driving license checked by a traffic officer. The large number of undocumented residents who are presumptively driving without a valid license is another point.

jackvalentine 9y ago

In my country all school children are taught the rules of the road at traffic school where they ride their bikes around a miniature road layout that comprises of most road scenarios.

Sean1708 9y ago
To be fair that happens in Britain too, or at least it did at both my primary and secondary school.