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The thing I really, really, really don't like about the GDPR is how the EU thinks it can impose it on companies that have no presence in the EU. While the GDPR

The thing I really, really, really don't like about the GDPR is how the EU thinks it can impose it on companies that have no presence in the EU. While the GDPR requirements might be reasonable, this is a very slippery slope that will only end in disaster.

_petronius 9y ago
> companies that have no presence in the EU Just because you don't have a business presence (in the form of an office and employees) doesn't mean you don't have a presence: collecting data from, and making a profit on, users and customers in the EU is a presence. The alternative would be to surrender the obligation to regulate business practice and the protection of citizens to other countries, with no political accountability.
- danieltillett 9y ago
  No political accountability is what the EU is doing right now. As a non-citizen of an EU country I have no say in this regulation or its enforcement, but somehow I am supposed to abide by it because the EU says so. The EU is trying to imposing a huge regulatory burden on companies over which it has no authority. Why do I or any other non-EU company have to put up with this? What happens when the laws in my country conflict with the laws the EU imposes on me from afar?
  - TeMPOraL 9y ago
    > Why do I or any other non-EU company have to put up with this? You don't have to. Just don't do business in the EU / with EU citizens. > What happens when the laws in my country conflict with the laws the EU imposes on me from afar? You have a choice - either break the laws or your country, or... just don't do business in the EU. (I do hope GDPR doesn't affect your company much; it seems to be doing God's good work, unlike most of the companies GDPR is targeted at.)
    - danieltillett 9y ago
      I don't think we are collecting any data that is covered by the GDRP as personal information is not of any use to us. I am more just outraged by the EU applying its laws on us like this. As for not doing any business with EU citizens this is impossible to comply with even if it was an option as there is no way of knowing if a person is an EU citizen or not.
      - guitarbill 9y ago
        Unlike the US, who would never think of applying US law outside of the US to e.g. get emails off a server located in another country or trying to extradite somebody who has never set foot in the US? Right... Besides, this situation only came about because companies did nothing, especially US companies w.r.t. EU data protection laws. It's a bit like the loot box thing, they thought they could get away with it, pushed it too far, and now they're dealing with the backlash of being huge, amoral scumbags.
        danieltillett 9y ago
        I am not happy about the US’s actions either in applying their laws on everyone. Anyway this is the sort of argument children use - “john did it too”.
    - wav-part 9y ago
      > "don't do business in the EU" This does not make sense on web. EU resident streaming a movie from netflix. Is netflix doing business in EU ? Or Is it the customer doing business in USA ? For example, it can be argued that its as if the customer went to USA, bought the dvd.
      - TeMPOraL 9y ago
        I wrote "don't do business in the EU / with EU citizens". > For example, it can be argued that its as if the customer went to USA, bought the dvd. A DVD does not collect your personal information and send them to the producer for processing.
pjc50 9y ago
Global jurisdiction isn't great, but this is not its first appearance and global application of US copyright and patent law has been a problem for a while. I suspect that without global jurisdiction we would end up with data laundering jurisdictions, just as we have tax laundering ones today.
- danieltillett 9y ago
  The US forces it laws on other countries by getting them to change their laws. If the EU wants to convince my country to change our laws then so be it, but why do I have to abide by a law that have I have no say in writing and have no way of changing it.
  - _o_ 9y ago
    There are internationally signed agreements about punishing the companies and persons breaking other country laws. The USA has signed a lot of them with EU (for example) and it is in mutual interest to use them for both parties. Does it work? Decide for yourself: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/eu-announces-record-27-billion-antitrust-fine-on-google-over-search-results/2017/06/27/1f7c475e-5b20-11e7-8e2f-ef443171f6bd_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/eu-announces-record-27-... And GDPR is not about the laws. It is about crooked people breaking basic human rights for their profit, every normal person should be glad that he has a straight (well almost :) ) directions how to respect and show respect for his customers. The attitude of "you cant force me" is fundamentally wrong. One more thing, as a non european cityzen, I would be carefully monitor what the sites are doing with basic human rights (as now it will become evident) and protect myself from those who show their disrespect by not using their sites, services etc. Whole world will profit from this legislation and you can bet a lot of other countries will adopt it.
    - danieltillett 9y ago
      Do you not see this is such a slippery slope? It is basically a "think of the children" justification. What happens when a country decides to imposes its laws on the EU and demand that data in the EU is removed or blocked that it doesn't like. The idea of the GDPR is good, it just is being implemented in a terrible way.
sgift 9y ago
The EU has jurisdiction over EU citizens and business you do with them. Don't want GDPR to apply to you? Don't do business with people living in the EU. Simple as that.
- danieltillett 9y ago
  Apart from the practical problem of I have no way of knowing if someone who I do business with is covered by this law, why do I have to follow it? Do you think it is fine for countries to apply their laws as they want on people outside of their country? What would happen if Fiji (just picking a random country here) applied a 10% income tax on all citizens of the EU. Would you think this was reasonable?
  - sgift 9y ago
    False equivalency. 'Income tax to all citizens of the EU that want to do business in Fiji' is the equivalent. And then it is the same thing: Do you want to do business in Fiji? Then you have to follow their laws.
    - danieltillett 9y ago
      So what if Fiji just imposed the tax on EU citizens that happened to visit a website hosted in Fiji? Would that make it OK?
  - TeMPOraL 9y ago
    It's the issue of data ownership. You seem to believe the data about your users, including those from the EU, belongs to you. The EU believes otherwise - and from that point of view, it's you who voluntarily subjects himself to EU laws by virtue of taking EU citizens' data.
    - danieltillett 9y ago
      I am not voluntarily subjecting myself to EU laws. If I wanted to do this I would establish a legal presence in the EU. I want nothing to do with the EU.
tripa 9y ago
Reminds me of the US imposing FATCA on the entire world.
- danieltillett 9y ago
  Yes it does and I am not happy about this either. Two wrongs do not make a right.

_petronius 9y ago

> companies that have no presence in the EU Just because you don't have a business presence (in the form of an office and employees) doesn't mean you don't have a presence: collecting data from, and making a profit on, users and customers in the EU is a presence. The alternative would be to surrender the obligation to regulate business practice and the protection of citizens to other countries, with no political accountability.

danieltillett 9y ago
No political accountability is what the EU is doing right now. As a non-citizen of an EU country I have no say in this regulation or its enforcement, but somehow I am supposed to abide by it because the EU says so. The EU is trying to imposing a huge regulatory burden on companies over which it has no authority. Why do I or any other non-EU company have to put up with this? What happens when the laws in my country conflict with the laws the EU imposes on me from afar?
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  > Why do I or any other non-EU company have to put up with this? You don't have to. Just don't do business in the EU / with EU citizens. > What happens when the laws in my country conflict with the laws the EU imposes on me from afar? You have a choice - either break the laws or your country, or... just don't do business in the EU. (I do hope GDPR doesn't affect your company much; it seems to be doing God's good work, unlike most of the companies GDPR is targeted at.)
  - danieltillett 9y ago
    I don't think we are collecting any data that is covered by the GDRP as personal information is not of any use to us. I am more just outraged by the EU applying its laws on us like this. As for not doing any business with EU citizens this is impossible to comply with even if it was an option as there is no way of knowing if a person is an EU citizen or not.
    - guitarbill 9y ago
      Unlike the US, who would never think of applying US law outside of the US to e.g. get emails off a server located in another country or trying to extradite somebody who has never set foot in the US? Right... Besides, this situation only came about because companies did nothing, especially US companies w.r.t. EU data protection laws. It's a bit like the loot box thing, they thought they could get away with it, pushed it too far, and now they're dealing with the backlash of being huge, amoral scumbags.
      - danieltillett 9y ago
        I am not happy about the US’s actions either in applying their laws on everyone. Anyway this is the sort of argument children use - “john did it too”.
  - wav-part 9y ago
    > "don't do business in the EU" This does not make sense on web. EU resident streaming a movie from netflix. Is netflix doing business in EU ? Or Is it the customer doing business in USA ? For example, it can be argued that its as if the customer went to USA, bought the dvd.
    - TeMPOraL 9y ago
      I wrote "don't do business in the EU / with EU citizens". > For example, it can be argued that its as if the customer went to USA, bought the dvd. A DVD does not collect your personal information and send them to the producer for processing.

pjc50 9y ago

Global jurisdiction isn't great, but this is not its first appearance and global application of US copyright and patent law has been a problem for a while. I suspect that without global jurisdiction we would end up with data laundering jurisdictions, just as we have tax laundering ones today.

danieltillett 9y ago
The US forces it laws on other countries by getting them to change their laws. If the EU wants to convince my country to change our laws then so be it, but why do I have to abide by a law that have I have no say in writing and have no way of changing it.
- _o_ 9y ago
  There are internationally signed agreements about punishing the companies and persons breaking other country laws. The USA has signed a lot of them with EU (for example) and it is in mutual interest to use them for both parties. Does it work? Decide for yourself: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/eu-announces-record-27-billion-antitrust-fine-on-google-over-search-results/2017/06/27/1f7c475e-5b20-11e7-8e2f-ef443171f6bd_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/eu-announces-record-27-... And GDPR is not about the laws. It is about crooked people breaking basic human rights for their profit, every normal person should be glad that he has a straight (well almost :) ) directions how to respect and show respect for his customers. The attitude of "you cant force me" is fundamentally wrong. One more thing, as a non european cityzen, I would be carefully monitor what the sites are doing with basic human rights (as now it will become evident) and protect myself from those who show their disrespect by not using their sites, services etc. Whole world will profit from this legislation and you can bet a lot of other countries will adopt it.
  - danieltillett 9y ago
    Do you not see this is such a slippery slope? It is basically a "think of the children" justification. What happens when a country decides to imposes its laws on the EU and demand that data in the EU is removed or blocked that it doesn't like. The idea of the GDPR is good, it just is being implemented in a terrible way.

sgift 9y ago

The EU has jurisdiction over EU citizens and business you do with them. Don't want GDPR to apply to you? Don't do business with people living in the EU. Simple as that.

danieltillett 9y ago
Apart from the practical problem of I have no way of knowing if someone who I do business with is covered by this law, why do I have to follow it? Do you think it is fine for countries to apply their laws as they want on people outside of their country? What would happen if Fiji (just picking a random country here) applied a 10% income tax on all citizens of the EU. Would you think this was reasonable?
- sgift 9y ago
  False equivalency. 'Income tax to all citizens of the EU that want to do business in Fiji' is the equivalent. And then it is the same thing: Do you want to do business in Fiji? Then you have to follow their laws.
  - danieltillett 9y ago
    So what if Fiji just imposed the tax on EU citizens that happened to visit a website hosted in Fiji? Would that make it OK?
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  It's the issue of data ownership. You seem to believe the data about your users, including those from the EU, belongs to you. The EU believes otherwise - and from that point of view, it's you who voluntarily subjects himself to EU laws by virtue of taking EU citizens' data.
  - danieltillett 9y ago
    I am not voluntarily subjecting myself to EU laws. If I wanted to do this I would establish a legal presence in the EU. I want nothing to do with the EU.

tripa 9y ago

Reminds me of the US imposing FATCA on the entire world.

danieltillett 9y ago
Yes it does and I am not happy about this either. Two wrongs do not make a right.