4 ms·

Humans are omnivores with a physiology primarily geared towards eating & digesting plants. We can eat animals but we absolutely don't need to to live a long, he

Humans are omnivores with a physiology primarily geared towards eating & digesting plants. We can eat animals but we absolutely don't need to to live a long, healthy life. So it's really a matter of how much you value your own pleasure & taste over another creature's suffering.

leadingthenet 9y ago
There’s still a significant difference between eating meat less often and abstaining from meat and other animal products completely, isn’t there?
- cageface 9y ago
  Yeah sure. The suffering you cause is proportional to how much meat you eat. If quitting it entirely is too big a step for you then try scaling it back. Even a single meat-free day a week is a good place to start. You may find you don't miss it as much as you think you will.
  - Valmar 9y ago
    > The suffering you cause is proportional to how much meat you eat. Oh really? Sounds like ideology more than fact. Are you really insinuating that plants don't feel pain? Because they certainly do. Look up Cleve Backster's research on plants.
    - cageface 9y ago
      It takes 7-10 kg of plants to produce one kg of meat, so you're causing that much more suffering even if you are willing to claim that plants suffer as much as we do from pain.
      - Valmar 9y ago
        Then we just need to feed the animals their natural diets instead of the abnormal, unnatural diet of grains and soyabeans that most factory-farmed animals are currently fattened on. Solution doesn't seem that difficult to me.
        cageface 9y ago
        If we do that then we can all eat meat about once a week. And anyway the ratio of plants eaten to meat produced would be about the same so no gain there.
    - moby_click 9y ago
      I don't think, Backster's "research" on plants is convincing: http://skepdic.com/plants.html http://skepdic.com/plants.html
red75prime 9y ago
All kinds of creatures will suffer and die even without us eating them. The fields, which were used to grow food for cattle, will became populated with wildlife. The choice is between suffering for predators survival or for our pleasure. Note that predators don't always listen to humane treatment of animals proposals, so the amount of suffering could increase. But it will not be our fault, so it's OK, right?
- cageface 9y ago
  The very brief suffering of an animal in the wild at the hands of a predator is nothing compared to the entire lifetime of unrelenting cruelty, suffering and unnatural confinement we offer them. There just really is no comparison at all. If you think there is then go educate yourself about what really goes on in factory farms. This is a good place to start: https://vimeo.com/209647801 https://vimeo.com/209647801
  - Valmar 9y ago
    This is why it is far more ethical to eat animals who have been raised in conditions that allow them to thrive happily and wholesomely. Factory farms are more-or-less a result of corporate capitalism and the greed for money.
    - cageface 9y ago
      Agreed but about 99% of the meat we eat in the US comes from factory farms. So unless you only ever eat meat that you are sure comes from humanely treated animals, which pretty much means never ever eating in restaurants, you won't be eating much meat. Producing meat in this way also can't come close to supporting even current global demands for meat so it's not really a solution. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/nil-zacharias/its-time-to-end-factory-f_b_1018840.html https://www.huffingtonpost.com/nil-zacharias/its-time-to-end...
      - Valmar 9y ago
        I'm certain a system could be devised to allow enough pasture-raised cattle, chickens and pigs to be raised in happy, healthy conditions until slaughtered for food. It would take more resources, but it would be worth it. It might also support the plant ecosystems more, because soyabean and grain monocultures won't be needed. However, the current Capitalist system's greed will ensure that this doesn't happen, because of the junk/fast food industry and their advertizing. Without junk/fast food's demands, the amount of meat required to sate the global population may actually shrink, because with proper education, food addiction may vanish, meaning we'll only need to eat what we actually need for nutrition and not for addiction's sake.
Valmar 9y ago
And neither do we absolutely need to eat plants to live a long, healthy life. Case in point? The traditional Eskimo diet that consisted majorly of fats, offal and meat. They lived long healthy lives only shortened due to the extreme coldness of their environment.
- cageface 9y ago
  This is actually a myth. Eskimos have a relatively high rate of cardiovascular disease and not particularly long lifespans: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25064579 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25064579 https://nutritionfacts.org/video/omega-3s-and-the-eskimo-fish-tale/ https://nutritionfacts.org/video/omega-3s-and-the-eskimo-fis... The risk of the dying from the top 10 causes of death in the US is reduced, in many cases dramatically, by eating a plant based diet. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr59/nvsr59_04.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr59/nvsr59_04.pdf Vegans have longer lifespans than non-vegans: http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/vegan-meat-life-expectancy-eggs-dairy-research-a7168036.html http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/...
wiz21c 9y ago
How is killing an animal different than killing a plant ?

leadingthenet 9y ago

There’s still a significant difference between eating meat less often and abstaining from meat and other animal products completely, isn’t there?

cageface 9y ago
Yeah sure. The suffering you cause is proportional to how much meat you eat. If quitting it entirely is too big a step for you then try scaling it back. Even a single meat-free day a week is a good place to start. You may find you don't miss it as much as you think you will.
- Valmar 9y ago
  > The suffering you cause is proportional to how much meat you eat. Oh really? Sounds like ideology more than fact. Are you really insinuating that plants don't feel pain? Because they certainly do. Look up Cleve Backster's research on plants.
  - cageface 9y ago
    It takes 7-10 kg of plants to produce one kg of meat, so you're causing that much more suffering even if you are willing to claim that plants suffer as much as we do from pain.
    - Valmar 9y ago
      Then we just need to feed the animals their natural diets instead of the abnormal, unnatural diet of grains and soyabeans that most factory-farmed animals are currently fattened on. Solution doesn't seem that difficult to me.
      - cageface 9y ago
        If we do that then we can all eat meat about once a week. And anyway the ratio of plants eaten to meat produced would be about the same so no gain there.
  - moby_click 9y ago
    I don't think, Backster's "research" on plants is convincing: http://skepdic.com/plants.html http://skepdic.com/plants.html

red75prime 9y ago

All kinds of creatures will suffer and die even without us eating them. The fields, which were used to grow food for cattle, will became populated with wildlife. The choice is between suffering for predators survival or for our pleasure. Note that predators don't always listen to humane treatment of animals proposals, so the amount of suffering could increase. But it will not be our fault, so it's OK, right?

cageface 9y ago
The very brief suffering of an animal in the wild at the hands of a predator is nothing compared to the entire lifetime of unrelenting cruelty, suffering and unnatural confinement we offer them. There just really is no comparison at all. If you think there is then go educate yourself about what really goes on in factory farms. This is a good place to start: https://vimeo.com/209647801 https://vimeo.com/209647801
- Valmar 9y ago
  This is why it is far more ethical to eat animals who have been raised in conditions that allow them to thrive happily and wholesomely. Factory farms are more-or-less a result of corporate capitalism and the greed for money.
  - cageface 9y ago
    Agreed but about 99% of the meat we eat in the US comes from factory farms. So unless you only ever eat meat that you are sure comes from humanely treated animals, which pretty much means never ever eating in restaurants, you won't be eating much meat. Producing meat in this way also can't come close to supporting even current global demands for meat so it's not really a solution. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/nil-zacharias/its-time-to-end-factory-f_b_1018840.html https://www.huffingtonpost.com/nil-zacharias/its-time-to-end...
    - Valmar 9y ago
      I'm certain a system could be devised to allow enough pasture-raised cattle, chickens and pigs to be raised in happy, healthy conditions until slaughtered for food. It would take more resources, but it would be worth it. It might also support the plant ecosystems more, because soyabean and grain monocultures won't be needed. However, the current Capitalist system's greed will ensure that this doesn't happen, because of the junk/fast food industry and their advertizing. Without junk/fast food's demands, the amount of meat required to sate the global population may actually shrink, because with proper education, food addiction may vanish, meaning we'll only need to eat what we actually need for nutrition and not for addiction's sake.

Valmar 9y ago

And neither do we absolutely need to eat plants to live a long, healthy life. Case in point? The traditional Eskimo diet that consisted majorly of fats, offal and meat. They lived long healthy lives only shortened due to the extreme coldness of their environment.

cageface 9y ago
This is actually a myth. Eskimos have a relatively high rate of cardiovascular disease and not particularly long lifespans: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25064579 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25064579 https://nutritionfacts.org/video/omega-3s-and-the-eskimo-fish-tale/ https://nutritionfacts.org/video/omega-3s-and-the-eskimo-fis... The risk of the dying from the top 10 causes of death in the US is reduced, in many cases dramatically, by eating a plant based diet. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr59/nvsr59_04.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr59/nvsr59_04.pdf Vegans have longer lifespans than non-vegans: http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/vegan-meat-life-expectancy-eggs-dairy-research-a7168036.html http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/...

wiz21c 9y ago

How is killing an animal different than killing a plant ?