5 ms·

The article says: > In the course of his long career, Sam Clemens lost as many friends as he made. He did not suffer fools or rivals gladly, especially if they

The article says: > In the course of his long career, Sam Clemens lost as many friends as he made. He did not suffer fools or rivals gladly, especially if they wore crinoline. Is "if they wore crinoline" an oblique way of saying "if they were women," or is it a turn of phrase meaning something else? I ask because I don't feel like many would understand (perhaps I'm wrong, given the forum?) the significance of "crinoline," a material that, as far as I know, is no longer in regular use... I would lean toward it meaning "if they were women," but the lists after that phrase are generally men, with only two women.

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ukulele 9y ago
On first pass I took that to mean if they were rigid/formal people. May not be what was intended, but that's how it sat with me.
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knownothing 9y ago
I'd guess that "wore" should be printed as "were". And further that it's intended to be a figurative use of the word meant to convey that he disliked people who were stiff or formal, like a crinoline. Disliking women has nothing to do with it.
- eesmith 9y ago
  The author seems rather fond of that phrase, which shows that it's not a typo. This essay is excerpted from The Life of Mark Twain: The Early Years. The relevant quote it: > In the course of his long career, Sam Clemens lost as many friends as he made. He did not suffer fools or rivals gladly, especially if they wore crinoline. He targeted them indiscriminately—from religious leaders (e.g., Mary Baker Eddy, John Alexander Dowie, De Witt Talmage), politicians (William McKinley, Theodore Roosevelt, Tim Sullivan), fellow writers and lecturers (Bret Harte, Kate Field), to literary pirates (John Camden Hotten) and military leaders (Frederick Funston). From "Twain in His Own Time" (same author), we see very similar text, but not identical - https://books.google.com/books?id=Po0GV2mONToC&pg=PR17&dq=%22wore+crinoline%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwichI26-szYAhWvh6YKHZXfAJs4HhDoAQhiMAc#v=onepage&q=%22wore%20crinoline%22&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=Po0GV2mONToC&pg=PR17&dq=%2... : > In the course of his long career, Mark Twain lost as many friend as he made. He did not suffer fools or rivals gladly, especially if they wore crinoline. He targeted them indiscriminately - from religious leaders (for example, Mary Baker Eddy, John Alexander Dowie, DeWitt Talmadge), to politicians (William McKinley, Tim Sullivan), to fellow writers and lecturers (Bret Harte, Kate Field), to literary pirates (John Camden Hotten), to military leaders (Frederick Funston)." From "Kate Field: The Many Lives of a Nineteenth-century American Journalist" (same author: - https://books.google.com/books?id=y3j5MT6gM5EC&pg=PA82&dq=%22wore+crinoline%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjk9uj0-czYAhWKiywKHdhlDec4FBDoAQgrMAA#v=onepage&q=crinoline&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=y3j5MT6gM5EC&pg=PA82&dq=%2... > ... and coedited the Buffalo Express. He did not suffer rivals gladly, especially those who wore crinoline. In early January ...
  - kgwgk 9y ago
    Interestingly, the last quote seems to be the original one as it appears in a book published earlier. And it seems to refer to women, at least those wearing crinoline, because it is used to introduce Twain’s dislike for Kate Field. The author might have become enamoured with this phrase, re-using it when it doesn’t make so much sense.
    - eesmith 9y ago
      I think that's a reasonable interpretation. In looking for a connection between Twain and crinoline just now (spurred by your comment), I found https://webb-deane-stevens.org/swimming-against-the-tide-in-crinoline-and-pin-curls-the-life-and-spirit-of-isabella-beecher-hooker/ https://webb-deane-stevens.org/swimming-against-the-tide-in-... : > In celebration of Women’s History Month, the Webb-Deane-Stevens Museum will host a lecture, “Swimming Against the Tide in Crinoline and Pin Curls: The Life and Spirit of Isabella Beecher Hooker,” ... Raised to believe that her place was at home, Hooker chaffed at the role. She was prickly. She refused to go quietly. She sided against her powerful family when her brother, a noted minister, was involved in a sex scandal that rocked the nation. Though he was a neighbor, Mark Twain avoided her, as did some of her family members. On the other hand, there's also the book "Crusader in Crinoline: the Life of Harriet Beecher Stowe", and Stowe and Twain were next-door neighbors and friends.
  - knownothing 9y ago
    Reasonable interpretation. Nice research. I wish the author had expressed what they meant more clearly. That phrase is poorly deployed.
DoubleCribble 9y ago
I don't think so. Art Garfunkel sings about wearing it; What a dream I had, Pressed in organdy, Clothed in crinoline, Of smoky burgundy, Softer than the rain. For Emily, Whenever I May Find Her
eesmith 9y ago
https://books.google.com/books?id=pxs2AQAAIAAJ&pg=PA569&dq=%22wore+crinoline%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjLlYGj-czYAhVCDiwKHYpjAK0Q6AEIWTAG#v=onepage&q=%22wore%20crinoline%22&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=pxs2AQAAIAAJ&pg=PA569&dq=%... has a letter from a coroner talking about the number of women "destroyed by fire from crinoline" and how "[i]n Austria some distinguished ladies appear to be determined not to receive any lady who wore crinoline." From the various Google Books matches, I get the sense that some people were against crinoline. Eg, from https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=CmWbmSzGNNsC&dq=%22wore+crinoline%22&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=crinoline https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=CmWbmSzGNNsC&dq=%22w... > "But," say the opponents of crinoline, "why carry a heavier burden than is absolutely necessary?" We reply that the tension of silks, ... > Crinoline has been the most abused article under the sun, but ladies have been unanimous in its praise ..
sdrothrock 9y ago
Replying to myself, after a bit of research, it seems like "wearing crinoline" is actually a marker for being more concerned with fashion (e.g. hoop skirts). Perhaps a modern day equivalent would be saying that someone looks down on people who "wear lumberjack shirts with their hair high and tight" (e.g. hipsters). Example: http://www.wondersandmarvels.com/2012/08/death-by-crinoline.html http://www.wondersandmarvels.com/2012/08/death-by-crinoline....
- drharby 9y ago
  Hey! I rock flannel and love my military cut! Am not a hipster!

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ukulele 9y ago

On first pass I took that to mean if they were rigid/formal people. May not be what was intended, but that's how it sat with me.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

knownothing 9y ago

I'd guess that "wore" should be printed as "were". And further that it's intended to be a figurative use of the word meant to convey that he disliked people who were stiff or formal, like a crinoline. Disliking women has nothing to do with it.

eesmith 9y ago
The author seems rather fond of that phrase, which shows that it's not a typo. This essay is excerpted from The Life of Mark Twain: The Early Years. The relevant quote it: > In the course of his long career, Sam Clemens lost as many friends as he made. He did not suffer fools or rivals gladly, especially if they wore crinoline. He targeted them indiscriminately—from religious leaders (e.g., Mary Baker Eddy, John Alexander Dowie, De Witt Talmage), politicians (William McKinley, Theodore Roosevelt, Tim Sullivan), fellow writers and lecturers (Bret Harte, Kate Field), to literary pirates (John Camden Hotten) and military leaders (Frederick Funston). From "Twain in His Own Time" (same author), we see very similar text, but not identical - https://books.google.com/books?id=Po0GV2mONToC&pg=PR17&dq=%22wore+crinoline%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwichI26-szYAhWvh6YKHZXfAJs4HhDoAQhiMAc#v=onepage&q=%22wore%20crinoline%22&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=Po0GV2mONToC&pg=PR17&dq=%2... : > In the course of his long career, Mark Twain lost as many friend as he made. He did not suffer fools or rivals gladly, especially if they wore crinoline. He targeted them indiscriminately - from religious leaders (for example, Mary Baker Eddy, John Alexander Dowie, DeWitt Talmadge), to politicians (William McKinley, Tim Sullivan), to fellow writers and lecturers (Bret Harte, Kate Field), to literary pirates (John Camden Hotten), to military leaders (Frederick Funston)." From "Kate Field: The Many Lives of a Nineteenth-century American Journalist" (same author: - https://books.google.com/books?id=y3j5MT6gM5EC&pg=PA82&dq=%22wore+crinoline%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjk9uj0-czYAhWKiywKHdhlDec4FBDoAQgrMAA#v=onepage&q=crinoline&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=y3j5MT6gM5EC&pg=PA82&dq=%2... > ... and coedited the Buffalo Express. He did not suffer rivals gladly, especially those who wore crinoline. In early January ...
- kgwgk 9y ago
  Interestingly, the last quote seems to be the original one as it appears in a book published earlier. And it seems to refer to women, at least those wearing crinoline, because it is used to introduce Twain’s dislike for Kate Field. The author might have become enamoured with this phrase, re-using it when it doesn’t make so much sense.
  - eesmith 9y ago
    I think that's a reasonable interpretation. In looking for a connection between Twain and crinoline just now (spurred by your comment), I found https://webb-deane-stevens.org/swimming-against-the-tide-in-crinoline-and-pin-curls-the-life-and-spirit-of-isabella-beecher-hooker/ https://webb-deane-stevens.org/swimming-against-the-tide-in-... : > In celebration of Women’s History Month, the Webb-Deane-Stevens Museum will host a lecture, “Swimming Against the Tide in Crinoline and Pin Curls: The Life and Spirit of Isabella Beecher Hooker,” ... Raised to believe that her place was at home, Hooker chaffed at the role. She was prickly. She refused to go quietly. She sided against her powerful family when her brother, a noted minister, was involved in a sex scandal that rocked the nation. Though he was a neighbor, Mark Twain avoided her, as did some of her family members. On the other hand, there's also the book "Crusader in Crinoline: the Life of Harriet Beecher Stowe", and Stowe and Twain were next-door neighbors and friends.
- knownothing 9y ago
  Reasonable interpretation. Nice research. I wish the author had expressed what they meant more clearly. That phrase is poorly deployed.

DoubleCribble 9y ago

I don't think so. Art Garfunkel sings about wearing it; What a dream I had, Pressed in organdy, Clothed in crinoline, Of smoky burgundy, Softer than the rain. For Emily, Whenever I May Find Her

eesmith 9y ago

https://books.google.com/books?id=pxs2AQAAIAAJ&pg=PA569&dq=%22wore+crinoline%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjLlYGj-czYAhVCDiwKHYpjAK0Q6AEIWTAG#v=onepage&q=%22wore%20crinoline%22&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=pxs2AQAAIAAJ&pg=PA569&dq=%... has a letter from a coroner talking about the number of women "destroyed by fire from crinoline" and how "[i]n Austria some distinguished ladies appear to be determined not to receive any lady who wore crinoline." From the various Google Books matches, I get the sense that some people were against crinoline. Eg, from https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=CmWbmSzGNNsC&dq=%22wore+crinoline%22&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=crinoline https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=CmWbmSzGNNsC&dq=%22w... > "But," say the opponents of crinoline, "why carry a heavier burden than is absolutely necessary?" We reply that the tension of silks, ... > Crinoline has been the most abused article under the sun, but ladies have been unanimous in its praise ..

sdrothrock 9y ago

Replying to myself, after a bit of research, it seems like "wearing crinoline" is actually a marker for being more concerned with fashion (e.g. hoop skirts). Perhaps a modern day equivalent would be saying that someone looks down on people who "wear lumberjack shirts with their hair high and tight" (e.g. hipsters). Example: http://www.wondersandmarvels.com/2012/08/death-by-crinoline.html http://www.wondersandmarvels.com/2012/08/death-by-crinoline....

drharby 9y ago
Hey! I rock flannel and love my military cut! Am not a hipster!