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The poster was arguing that negative network conditions can be simulated. If the problem is a lack of information about global network conditions, then you can

The poster was arguing that negative network conditions can be simulated. If the problem is a lack of information about global network conditions, then you can deploy canary machines around the world to gather that information.

ucaetano 9y ago
They can be simulated, but not predicted. > If the problem is a lack of information about global network conditions, then you can deploy canary machines around the world to gather that information. You'd need to put machines in every single city and every single ISP in the world continuously testing every website in the world. Doesn't make any sense at all. That's not how networks work.
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  It's unfeasible, but also completely unnecessary. CDNs can give you some speedup, but they don't magically make a site smaller and less resource-intensive to use.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- SheinhardtWigCo 9y ago
  OP was talking about a "neutral" speed index. You're talking about solving for every possible combination of user, ISP, and website. There's probably a reasonable middle ground in there somewhere.
  - ucaetano 9y ago
    But that's the point, it doesn't depend on a "neutral" speed index, it varies from website to website, ISP to ISP. If you're in Jakarta trying to access a certain website, if that website is available at the local CDN might make a bigger difference than which ISP or even which plan you're using. You could have a 1Gbps fiber connection from your ISP in Jakarta. If you're trying to access a website in Singapore the your ISP's international link is congested, that 1Gbps will be useless. OTOH, if you have a 10Mbps connection, and you're trying to access a website replicated at an Akamai CDN in your ISP's network, it will be way faster.
    - joshmaker 9y ago
      If we accept your argument that Google can't measure the speed of a webpage then wouldn't it also follow that Google can't know if the AMP version of a page is actually faster than the non-AMP version?
      - ucaetano 9y ago
        > If we accept your argument that Google can't measure the speed of a webpage Correction: Google can't predict the speed of a random webpage to a random user around the world. But you can reasonably predict that pages hosted at widely available CDNs around the world will load faster on average than pages not available.
        jfrankamp 9y ago
        Google _can_ predict the speed of any webpage to any user. Google Analytics data is enough. Your whole thread is predicated on Google having that one product (crawler). They have everything.

ucaetano 9y ago

They can be simulated, but not predicted. > If the problem is a lack of information about global network conditions, then you can deploy canary machines around the world to gather that information. You'd need to put machines in every single city and every single ISP in the world continuously testing every website in the world. Doesn't make any sense at all. That's not how networks work.

TeMPOraL 9y ago
It's unfeasible, but also completely unnecessary. CDNs can give you some speedup, but they don't magically make a site smaller and less resource-intensive to use.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
SheinhardtWigCo 9y ago
OP was talking about a "neutral" speed index. You're talking about solving for every possible combination of user, ISP, and website. There's probably a reasonable middle ground in there somewhere.
- ucaetano 9y ago
  But that's the point, it doesn't depend on a "neutral" speed index, it varies from website to website, ISP to ISP. If you're in Jakarta trying to access a certain website, if that website is available at the local CDN might make a bigger difference than which ISP or even which plan you're using. You could have a 1Gbps fiber connection from your ISP in Jakarta. If you're trying to access a website in Singapore the your ISP's international link is congested, that 1Gbps will be useless. OTOH, if you have a 10Mbps connection, and you're trying to access a website replicated at an Akamai CDN in your ISP's network, it will be way faster.
  - joshmaker 9y ago
    If we accept your argument that Google can't measure the speed of a webpage then wouldn't it also follow that Google can't know if the AMP version of a page is actually faster than the non-AMP version?
    - ucaetano 9y ago
      > If we accept your argument that Google can't measure the speed of a webpage Correction: Google can't predict the speed of a random webpage to a random user around the world. But you can reasonably predict that pages hosted at widely available CDNs around the world will load faster on average than pages not available.
      - jfrankamp 9y ago
        Google _can_ predict the speed of any webpage to any user. Google Analytics data is enough. Your whole thread is predicated on Google having that one product (crawler). They have everything.