4 ms·

I'm not sure how much of a fan I am of taking an action that is clearly user-beneficial, and implying, sans any evidence, that it is actually malevolent. Apple

I'm not sure how much of a fan I am of taking an action that is clearly user-beneficial, and implying, sans any evidence, that it is actually malevolent. Apple has shown, through multiple product releases, that it cares deeply about the privacy of users in a way that other companies have not. Those releases are a clear counter-point to the notion that Apple is only doing this to drive people towards the App Store.

stinkytaco 9y ago
None of these behaviors are mutually exclusive. They can both care about customer experience and want to drive developers to the app store, where they will both get a cut and possibly provide users a better experience. I think that Volvo and Kia make cars that are safer than they need to be, but that might be as much in their interest as anyone else's.
- etchalon 9y ago
  They aren't mutually exclusive, but there is no evidence for the accusation. It's just a thing people say is true and people accept as true because … reasons.
  - jackpirate 9y ago
    Claiming that Apple is acting in its own best interests is not an "accusation". There doesn't have to be an especially negative connotation to Apple acting in their own interest, and I don't think /u/michaelbuckbee was intending to "accuse" Apple. I think they were just reminding us why Apple is behaving the way it is, but not passing the negative moral judgement you implied.
    - etchalon 9y ago
      It's very precisely an accusation. The idea is that Apple's efforts to protect user privacy online are motivated by a selfish business case towards incentivizing people away from the web. /u/michaelbuckbee wasn't "reminding us why Apple was behaving" this way, as he has absolutely no insight or insider knowledge as to the motivations of the team who developed and deployed this feature.
- sjwright 9y ago
  You are implying causation when all you have is correlation.
logfromblammo 9y ago
In tabletop board games, I often give advice to the other players that genuinely helps them. Sometimes--not always--the advice is tweaked such that it also helps me or hurts one of my opponents. After a while, this can instill "Iocaine Powder" doubt whenever I advise someone to do something they were probably already considering. It's fun to watch when someone does something other than the clearly optimal move, just because I said it was clearly optimal. My sibling has adopted the counter-strategy of doing something gratuitously damaging to me, regardless of the strategic cost, whenever I try the manipulative-helpful gambit, but no one else has adopted that yet. So I can't fault the strategy here. Clearly, Apple is always on its own side, even when it appears to be doing something great for its customers. Whether it did this or not, it would still be reaping 30% from the Apple App Store, where the "leave me alone" versus "pay me" arms race is markedly less obvious to the median user. The same rationale Apple uses for patching the Web to be more usable could also be used by a jailbreaker who bypasses in-app purchases or advertisements. It should probably expect advertisers to fight back to protect their business just as fiercely as Apple guards its App Store revenue.
- etchalon 9y ago
  You offered no evidence for the statement "Clearly, Apple is always on its own side". And that's my point. This is a thing people say, sans evidence, that is then excepted as a gospel truth because it makes some amount of "evil businesses are always evil" sense.
  - logfromblammo 9y ago
    Apple Q3 2017: "The Company posted quarterly revenue of $45.4 billion and quarterly earnings per diluted share of $1.67. These results compare to revenue of $42.4 billion and earnings per diluted share of $1.42 in the year-ago quarter.... "Apple’s board of directors has declared a cash dividend of $0.63 per share of the Company’s common stock. The dividend is payable on August 17, 2017 to shareholders of record as of the close of business on August 14, 2017...." Apple is on its own side, and it is winning. It occasionally allies itself with users, and they mutually benefit from the arrangement. The users, of course, do not release quarterly reports on how happy they are, and don't break that down by any particular company, so we can't compare to see who benefits more. But Apple also--more rarely--does something hostile to users. I would cite as an example the removal of TRRS connectors from newer iPhones. Clearly, in that, Apple was squarely on its own side, and users that didn't like the change could use a dongle or sod off.

stinkytaco 9y ago

None of these behaviors are mutually exclusive. They can both care about customer experience and want to drive developers to the app store, where they will both get a cut and possibly provide users a better experience. I think that Volvo and Kia make cars that are safer than they need to be, but that might be as much in their interest as anyone else's.

etchalon 9y ago
They aren't mutually exclusive, but there is no evidence for the accusation. It's just a thing people say is true and people accept as true because … reasons.
- jackpirate 9y ago
  Claiming that Apple is acting in its own best interests is not an "accusation". There doesn't have to be an especially negative connotation to Apple acting in their own interest, and I don't think /u/michaelbuckbee was intending to "accuse" Apple. I think they were just reminding us why Apple is behaving the way it is, but not passing the negative moral judgement you implied.
  - etchalon 9y ago
    It's very precisely an accusation. The idea is that Apple's efforts to protect user privacy online are motivated by a selfish business case towards incentivizing people away from the web. /u/michaelbuckbee wasn't "reminding us why Apple was behaving" this way, as he has absolutely no insight or insider knowledge as to the motivations of the team who developed and deployed this feature.
sjwright 9y ago
You are implying causation when all you have is correlation.

logfromblammo 9y ago

In tabletop board games, I often give advice to the other players that genuinely helps them. Sometimes--not always--the advice is tweaked such that it also helps me or hurts one of my opponents. After a while, this can instill "Iocaine Powder" doubt whenever I advise someone to do something they were probably already considering. It's fun to watch when someone does something other than the clearly optimal move, just because I said it was clearly optimal. My sibling has adopted the counter-strategy of doing something gratuitously damaging to me, regardless of the strategic cost, whenever I try the manipulative-helpful gambit, but no one else has adopted that yet. So I can't fault the strategy here. Clearly, Apple is always on its own side, even when it appears to be doing something great for its customers. Whether it did this or not, it would still be reaping 30% from the Apple App Store, where the "leave me alone" versus "pay me" arms race is markedly less obvious to the median user. The same rationale Apple uses for patching the Web to be more usable could also be used by a jailbreaker who bypasses in-app purchases or advertisements. It should probably expect advertisers to fight back to protect their business just as fiercely as Apple guards its App Store revenue.

etchalon 9y ago
You offered no evidence for the statement "Clearly, Apple is always on its own side". And that's my point. This is a thing people say, sans evidence, that is then excepted as a gospel truth because it makes some amount of "evil businesses are always evil" sense.
- logfromblammo 9y ago
  Apple Q3 2017: "The Company posted quarterly revenue of $45.4 billion and quarterly earnings per diluted share of $1.67. These results compare to revenue of $42.4 billion and earnings per diluted share of $1.42 in the year-ago quarter.... "Apple’s board of directors has declared a cash dividend of $0.63 per share of the Company’s common stock. The dividend is payable on August 17, 2017 to shareholders of record as of the close of business on August 14, 2017...." Apple is on its own side, and it is winning. It occasionally allies itself with users, and they mutually benefit from the arrangement. The users, of course, do not release quarterly reports on how happy they are, and don't break that down by any particular company, so we can't compare to see who benefits more. But Apple also--more rarely--does something hostile to users. I would cite as an example the removal of TRRS connectors from newer iPhones. Clearly, in that, Apple was squarely on its own side, and users that didn't like the change could use a dongle or sod off.