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I support this completely and I would go one step further. We need a search engine that is free of CPM-monetization practices. It has become clear that Google i

I support this completely and I would go one step further. We need a search engine that is free of CPM-monetization practices. It has become clear that Google is driving the web intentionally in a profit-maximizing direction at the expense of users and ordinary developers. Move ad blocking to the indexing layer. Create a corner of the web that is naturally fast and user-friendly again without resorting to corporate-defined subsets of well-documented open web technologies.

ariwilson 9y ago
I have no idea what this comment means. Do you want to block all websites that have ads on them from Google?
- tboyd47 9y ago
  I mean block websites that monetize using CPM, which would incidentally be the vast majority of ads served using DoubleClick's ad marketplace. These also tend to be the ads caught with ad blockers, since CPM requires technical artifacts like iframes that are easy to spot. Sorry, I'm trying to be as succinct as possible, but I've come to see the advent of ad blockers, intrusive ads, pervasive tracking, client-heavy web practices, and clickbait as a single phenomenon that has its roots in the rise of CPM as the primary pricing mechanism for advertising.
  - davidcbc 9y ago
    I'm sure that your search engine with no websites on it will be a huge success.
    - tboyd47 9y ago
      Do you know another way out of the Googernet ad matrix? http://www.businessinsider.com/google-saved-an-estimated-887-million-by-paying-adblock-plus-to-show-its-ads-2013-8 http://www.businessinsider.com/google-saved-an-estimated-887...
      - davidcbc 9y ago
        You can do any of the following. 1) Accept that most websites have to make money to continue to provide you content and that advertising is how most of them do it. 2) Do not visit websites that choose to support their business through advertising 3) Use uBlock and continue to use websites. But given the prevalence of websites that monetize via advertising a search engine that excludes websites with ads is as useful as a social network without any people.
        tboyd47 9y ago
        Eh, it's not quite the same as a social network. Indexing a webpage doesn't require any action on the publisher's part (even though in practice, it's astonishing the hoops publishers jump through for SEO). If that were the case, you would be right, and there would not be any room for niche search engines like DuckDuckGo. Like I said in other comments - my gripe is not with advertising. My gripe is with CPM. The trend of optimizing for CPM has created a perverse incentive structure that harms the web ecosystem in many ways, and IMO, only benefits Google.
Sahbak 9y ago
And it will get paid... How? Ads are keeping your net experience free.
- tboyd47 9y ago
  It would still be ads, but much nicer ones that come out of direct negotiation between publishers and advertisers, instead of some shady clickbait ad agency randomly selected to invade your site by Google's algorithms. My experience has been that direct-sold ads produce more revenue for publishers than programmatic ads. I would love to see research on this one day.
  - evv 9y ago
    > much nicer [ads] that come out of direct negotiation between publishers and advertisers Uh, usually this results in "native advertising", which is advertising pretending to be real articles. This is much more dangerous and insidious in my opinion than an explicit 'sponsored' box with an ad inside. If this continues, successful publishers will be the ones that push the most profitable corporate propaganda, rather than the ones that effectively inform the public.
    - tboyd47 9y ago
      You're still thinking in terms of programmatic ad marketplaces. I've actually done native advertising and even something as simple as adding a company's logo to an online catalog can pull in $100,000s in ad revenue. You don't need DFP for that, and it's undetectable by ad blockers because it's just an image. We need to get out of this concept of thinking of advertising as just publishers selling blank squares of "real estate" on their site, and back to the sort of partnership model that existed in print media. A publisher specializes in reaching a certain audience with certain interests; the right advertiser will pay more to reach that audience. You don't need to track individuals to do that or build profiles on them. Digital advertising made a new pricing model possible: CPM. But just because you have a new way of doing something doesn't mean it's the best way.
  - TheCoreh 9y ago
fghtr 9y ago
>We need a search engine that is free of CPM-monetization practices Then you should join the distributed free p2p search engine: http://yacy.net http://yacy.net

ariwilson 9y ago

I have no idea what this comment means. Do you want to block all websites that have ads on them from Google?

tboyd47 9y ago
I mean block websites that monetize using CPM, which would incidentally be the vast majority of ads served using DoubleClick's ad marketplace. These also tend to be the ads caught with ad blockers, since CPM requires technical artifacts like iframes that are easy to spot. Sorry, I'm trying to be as succinct as possible, but I've come to see the advent of ad blockers, intrusive ads, pervasive tracking, client-heavy web practices, and clickbait as a single phenomenon that has its roots in the rise of CPM as the primary pricing mechanism for advertising.
- davidcbc 9y ago
  I'm sure that your search engine with no websites on it will be a huge success.
  - tboyd47 9y ago
    Do you know another way out of the Googernet ad matrix? http://www.businessinsider.com/google-saved-an-estimated-887-million-by-paying-adblock-plus-to-show-its-ads-2013-8 http://www.businessinsider.com/google-saved-an-estimated-887...
    - davidcbc 9y ago
      You can do any of the following. 1) Accept that most websites have to make money to continue to provide you content and that advertising is how most of them do it. 2) Do not visit websites that choose to support their business through advertising 3) Use uBlock and continue to use websites. But given the prevalence of websites that monetize via advertising a search engine that excludes websites with ads is as useful as a social network without any people.
      - tboyd47 9y ago
        Eh, it's not quite the same as a social network. Indexing a webpage doesn't require any action on the publisher's part (even though in practice, it's astonishing the hoops publishers jump through for SEO). If that were the case, you would be right, and there would not be any room for niche search engines like DuckDuckGo. Like I said in other comments - my gripe is not with advertising. My gripe is with CPM. The trend of optimizing for CPM has created a perverse incentive structure that harms the web ecosystem in many ways, and IMO, only benefits Google.

Sahbak 9y ago

And it will get paid... How? Ads are keeping your net experience free.

tboyd47 9y ago
It would still be ads, but much nicer ones that come out of direct negotiation between publishers and advertisers, instead of some shady clickbait ad agency randomly selected to invade your site by Google's algorithms. My experience has been that direct-sold ads produce more revenue for publishers than programmatic ads. I would love to see research on this one day.
- evv 9y ago
  > much nicer [ads] that come out of direct negotiation between publishers and advertisers Uh, usually this results in "native advertising", which is advertising pretending to be real articles. This is much more dangerous and insidious in my opinion than an explicit 'sponsored' box with an ad inside. If this continues, successful publishers will be the ones that push the most profitable corporate propaganda, rather than the ones that effectively inform the public.
  - tboyd47 9y ago
    You're still thinking in terms of programmatic ad marketplaces. I've actually done native advertising and even something as simple as adding a company's logo to an online catalog can pull in $100,000s in ad revenue. You don't need DFP for that, and it's undetectable by ad blockers because it's just an image. We need to get out of this concept of thinking of advertising as just publishers selling blank squares of "real estate" on their site, and back to the sort of partnership model that existed in print media. A publisher specializes in reaching a certain audience with certain interests; the right advertiser will pay more to reach that audience. You don't need to track individuals to do that or build profiles on them. Digital advertising made a new pricing model possible: CPM. But just because you have a new way of doing something doesn't mean it's the best way.
- TheCoreh 9y ago

fghtr 9y ago

>We need a search engine that is free of CPM-monetization practices Then you should join the distributed free p2p search engine: http://yacy.net http://yacy.net