6 ms·

> So .. my real question, is why is this not brought to the national level for discussion to what Elon is doing to communities like Buffalo, where I live? That'

> So .. my real question, is why is this not brought to the national level for discussion to what Elon is doing to communities like Buffalo, where I live? That's my question ... Because Buffalo isn't a place that attracts much attention about anything outside of lake-effect snow and how terrible the Buffalo Bills are. These silver-bullet projects that promise to bring large number of high-paying jobs rarely pan out. Remember when Yahoo put in that data center in Lockport (just outside of Buffalo for everyone not familiar with the area)? It was touted as a big win...as of two years ago they have a whopping 98 employees (most making less than 6 figures according to Glassdoor.) https://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/blog/science-and-technology/2016/02/yahoo-job-count-pacing-well-in-lockport-as.html https://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/blog/science-and-technol... (I was born in Buffalo and lived there for 35 years before moving south.)

JohnStudio 9y ago
The Bills comment gave me a chuckle. :) Oddly enough its not the amount of snow, but rather the severity of it. I was born in Virginia - dad in Florida, mom in Georgia. :) I'm here because pops moved to Syracuse and I lived in Cortland area, before moving here (and a stint for college in AL). What really WAS the catalyst for downtown was not SolarCity or anything major, but the total opposite. Chris Collins (R) - despite his negative reputation - started out as our County Executive and in combination with Brian Higgins, balanced our budget and make Buffalo profitable for once after some dark economic times, while Higgins asked Bass Pro its intentions at the for Aud site (previous home of the Sabres). They (after several years of promising to build a mega-store) backed out and we created a ton of smaller projects - not continuing on the path of the "silver-bullet" approach to anchoring the downtown on. So ... Republican ideas (not dominant liberal thinking) IMHO was the catalyst. Collins comes from the business sector, much like Trump. Mind you, I am not trying to make a political point here - merely a strategic small business / economic en-devour that helped Buffalo get back on its right track. Mayor Brown is actually a good mayor. Thoughtful even .. but Collins set him up to be - again subjective opinion. I like Byron personally ... and lukewarm on his politics, however ... he has maintained great en-devours here. I just hope he goes into the East Side of Buffalo with as much as we have here as downtown. I remain optimistic that the leadership we have now, will see the benefits of making our minority populations ... better.
- gamblor956 9y ago
  Higgins asked Bass Pro its intentions at the for Aud site (previous home of the Sabres). They (after several years of promising to build a mega-store) backed out and we created a ton of smaller projects - not continuing on the path of the "silver-bullet" approach to anchoring the downtown on. That sound a lot like liberal thinking to me. Traditional Republican philosophy is generally to seek out one or two major storefronts to anchor an entire town. It's pretty much the entire economic premise of the extremely red Midwest. I'm not trying to make a political point, just pointing out that copying the strategy most frequently used by large, liberal cities like LA, Chicago, SF, and NYC (lots of economic projects spread out over the metropolitan area) helped Buffalo get back on the right track.
  - hueving 9y ago
    >Traditional Republican philosophy is generally to seek out one or two major storefronts to anchor an entire town. How can you make a generalization like that with a straight face? I spent a significant number of years in Wyoming, Montana and Idaho and most of the Republicans I interacted with there were pro small business and disliked dominating large chains owned by out of state corporations. A single store without meaningful competition is antithetical to the message of the Republican party. You are confusing what naturally happens when you have small cities (<200k) not filled with rich people with a political view. When you have small cities, anyone with a large war chest can pretty easily bully everyone else on price and a regular middle class population will not pay a significant premium to 'support local'. Talk to folks in a town dominated by a Walmart. Tons of people hate going there but still do because it's the best price. Finally, the only thing that gets a smaller city on the right track is businesses that attract outside money. A small city will never thrive regardless of building one huge retail store vs tons of small ones if the same small population are the only folks shopping there. The easiest way for city to get external money pouring in is to accept a deal for a big industrial operation.
    - GiorgioG 9y ago
      > Finally, the only thing that gets a smaller city on the right track is businesses that attract outside money. A small city will never thrive regardless of building one huge retail store vs tons of small ones if the same small population are the only folks shopping there. The easiest way for city to get external money pouring in is to accept a deal for a big industrial operation. Buffalo is hampered by being in the same state as NYC - it's too far from it to reap any of the benefits. High taxes, a ton of regulation, red tape and little to no political sway at the state level. If NYC were to secede and form its own state/district/etc, Buffalo and the rest of upstate NY might be better off. It's near and dear to my heart, but nothing will save Buffalo. Will it get better? Sure, but not fast enough to stop the bleeding: "Buffalo, on the other hand, has experienced the sharpest rate of decline, losing 61.75 people per month." Source: https://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/news/2017/10/31/upstate-population-trends.html https://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/news/2017/10/31/upstate-... Meanwhile, in the Raleigh, NC area where I moved is growing at ~62 per day or ~1860/month.
stcredzero 9y ago
Because Buffalo isn't a place that attracts much attention about anything outside of lake-effect snow and how terrible the Buffalo Bills are. The only movie about Buffalo I know of literally features lake-effect snow, how terrible the Bills are, and the tap dancing of Christina Ricci. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118789/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118789/
briffle 9y ago
> These silver-bullet projects that promise to bring large number of high-paying jobs rarely pan out. Remember when Yahoo put in that data center in Lockport (just outside of Buffalo for everyone not familiar with the area)? It was touted as a big win...as of two years ago they have a whopping 98 employees (most making less than 6 figures according to Glassdoor.) Meanwhile, Wisconsin is bending over backward to give somewhere near $4Billion to foxconn to build a new manufacturing facility in Wisconsin, and everytime someone asks if they should spend that much, they get "10,000 JOBS" shouted at them.. (even then, that seems like way too much per job, at $300,000 in direct state subsidy per employee, if they get to 10,000, but its an impressive sounding number). then they have local subsidies, promised freeway widening, etc..
- webXL 9y ago
  Wait, Wisconsin wants to "give" $4Billion to foxconn? Is that in cash or tax breaks, in which case, are isn't Foxconn really just keeping their money?
  - civilian 9y ago
    Tax breaks are pretty much the same as cash-over-time, come on.
    - webXL 9y ago
      No, you come on. You are not giving me the money in my bank account just because you say I don't have to give it to you.
      - civilian 9y ago
        Dude I'm as libertarian as they come; taxation is theft. But you're doing stupid things with semantics here. The company has more money to operate with; we're just talking about this from a business-operation point of view.
        9y ago

JohnStudio 9y ago

The Bills comment gave me a chuckle. :) Oddly enough its not the amount of snow, but rather the severity of it. I was born in Virginia - dad in Florida, mom in Georgia. :) I'm here because pops moved to Syracuse and I lived in Cortland area, before moving here (and a stint for college in AL). What really WAS the catalyst for downtown was not SolarCity or anything major, but the total opposite. Chris Collins (R) - despite his negative reputation - started out as our County Executive and in combination with Brian Higgins, balanced our budget and make Buffalo profitable for once after some dark economic times, while Higgins asked Bass Pro its intentions at the for Aud site (previous home of the Sabres). They (after several years of promising to build a mega-store) backed out and we created a ton of smaller projects - not continuing on the path of the "silver-bullet" approach to anchoring the downtown on. So ... Republican ideas (not dominant liberal thinking) IMHO was the catalyst. Collins comes from the business sector, much like Trump. Mind you, I am not trying to make a political point here - merely a strategic small business / economic en-devour that helped Buffalo get back on its right track. Mayor Brown is actually a good mayor. Thoughtful even .. but Collins set him up to be - again subjective opinion. I like Byron personally ... and lukewarm on his politics, however ... he has maintained great en-devours here. I just hope he goes into the East Side of Buffalo with as much as we have here as downtown. I remain optimistic that the leadership we have now, will see the benefits of making our minority populations ... better.

gamblor956 9y ago
Higgins asked Bass Pro its intentions at the for Aud site (previous home of the Sabres). They (after several years of promising to build a mega-store) backed out and we created a ton of smaller projects - not continuing on the path of the "silver-bullet" approach to anchoring the downtown on. That sound a lot like liberal thinking to me. Traditional Republican philosophy is generally to seek out one or two major storefronts to anchor an entire town. It's pretty much the entire economic premise of the extremely red Midwest. I'm not trying to make a political point, just pointing out that copying the strategy most frequently used by large, liberal cities like LA, Chicago, SF, and NYC (lots of economic projects spread out over the metropolitan area) helped Buffalo get back on the right track.
- hueving 9y ago
  >Traditional Republican philosophy is generally to seek out one or two major storefronts to anchor an entire town. How can you make a generalization like that with a straight face? I spent a significant number of years in Wyoming, Montana and Idaho and most of the Republicans I interacted with there were pro small business and disliked dominating large chains owned by out of state corporations. A single store without meaningful competition is antithetical to the message of the Republican party. You are confusing what naturally happens when you have small cities (<200k) not filled with rich people with a political view. When you have small cities, anyone with a large war chest can pretty easily bully everyone else on price and a regular middle class population will not pay a significant premium to 'support local'. Talk to folks in a town dominated by a Walmart. Tons of people hate going there but still do because it's the best price. Finally, the only thing that gets a smaller city on the right track is businesses that attract outside money. A small city will never thrive regardless of building one huge retail store vs tons of small ones if the same small population are the only folks shopping there. The easiest way for city to get external money pouring in is to accept a deal for a big industrial operation.
  - GiorgioG 9y ago
    > Finally, the only thing that gets a smaller city on the right track is businesses that attract outside money. A small city will never thrive regardless of building one huge retail store vs tons of small ones if the same small population are the only folks shopping there. The easiest way for city to get external money pouring in is to accept a deal for a big industrial operation. Buffalo is hampered by being in the same state as NYC - it's too far from it to reap any of the benefits. High taxes, a ton of regulation, red tape and little to no political sway at the state level. If NYC were to secede and form its own state/district/etc, Buffalo and the rest of upstate NY might be better off. It's near and dear to my heart, but nothing will save Buffalo. Will it get better? Sure, but not fast enough to stop the bleeding: "Buffalo, on the other hand, has experienced the sharpest rate of decline, losing 61.75 people per month." Source: https://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/news/2017/10/31/upstate-population-trends.html https://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/news/2017/10/31/upstate-... Meanwhile, in the Raleigh, NC area where I moved is growing at ~62 per day or ~1860/month.

stcredzero 9y ago

Because Buffalo isn't a place that attracts much attention about anything outside of lake-effect snow and how terrible the Buffalo Bills are. The only movie about Buffalo I know of literally features lake-effect snow, how terrible the Bills are, and the tap dancing of Christina Ricci. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118789/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118789/

briffle 9y ago

> These silver-bullet projects that promise to bring large number of high-paying jobs rarely pan out. Remember when Yahoo put in that data center in Lockport (just outside of Buffalo for everyone not familiar with the area)? It was touted as a big win...as of two years ago they have a whopping 98 employees (most making less than 6 figures according to Glassdoor.) Meanwhile, Wisconsin is bending over backward to give somewhere near $4Billion to foxconn to build a new manufacturing facility in Wisconsin, and everytime someone asks if they should spend that much, they get "10,000 JOBS" shouted at them.. (even then, that seems like way too much per job, at $300,000 in direct state subsidy per employee, if they get to 10,000, but its an impressive sounding number). then they have local subsidies, promised freeway widening, etc..

webXL 9y ago
Wait, Wisconsin wants to "give" $4Billion to foxconn? Is that in cash or tax breaks, in which case, are isn't Foxconn really just keeping their money?
- civilian 9y ago
  Tax breaks are pretty much the same as cash-over-time, come on.
  - webXL 9y ago
    No, you come on. You are not giving me the money in my bank account just because you say I don't have to give it to you.
    - civilian 9y ago
      Dude I'm as libertarian as they come; taxation is theft. But you're doing stupid things with semantics here. The company has more money to operate with; we're just talking about this from a business-operation point of view.
      - 9y ago