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Breaking windows is not bricking a machine, can we please stop abusing this term. Brick means irrevocably render an electronic device inoperative (making it as

by throwaway2048 9y ago

Breaking windows is not bricking a machine, can we please stop abusing this term. Brick means irrevocably render an electronic device inoperative (making it as useful as a brick), short of something like JTAG or soldering. This is especially important surrounding hardware bug concerns like this, because its at least conceivable that interactions with hardware bugs really could brick machines. EDIT: for posterity post title is "Windows AMD Spectre patches brick some machines" atm.

andrewstuart2 9y ago
I do agree with you, but at the same time, a non-booting OS does essentially mean a heavy-but-useless device for the vast majority of computer users. They'll have to spend their own money taking it in to get the OS reinstalled, and a lot more if they want to try to recover the data still on the file system.
- kbenson 9y ago
  Or use some other computer and a USB key fob to create a bootable USB disk that can fix it, and reading the directions on how to boot from it on their phone while actually at the computer in question. Of have their kids do as much. We're probably a few days at most from something like that being put together (possibly by MS or AMD themselves) if it hasn't already. It's not 2005, there's a much higher population of people that have at least enough experience to follow directions such as that.
rdtsc 9y ago
That's fair, I updated the title. I though bricking was a shorter title but your point is true.
mattnewton 9y ago
Fair point, though for a typical end user this might be indistinguishable
zeep 9y ago
You appear to be talking about soft brick vs hard brick? neither hard brick or soft brick is physically broken though...
- chrisper 9y ago
  "Bricked" refers to that your device can now be used as a brick and nothing else... at least that's how I always understood it.
- da_chicken 9y ago
  Brick means "to render a device permanently inoperable." There is no hard or soft involved. Bricked is bricked. If you can recover the device without replacing hardware or components, you didn't brick it, you just fucked it up.
  - korethr 9y ago
    I think it's fair to say that different people have different thresholds for "bricked" depending on their awareness, willingness, and ability with regard to various repair techniques that may be to hand. To my mother, a virus that causes her laptop to bluescreen upon boot is bricked. There's nothing she can do about that. To me, you gotta do something like wreck the firmware, and even that's not quite permanent, as I am not afraid of soldering tools.
    - josteink 9y ago
      Your grandma is not going to say the machine is “bricked”. She will say it’s not working. Bricked is a technical term used by techies, and it has one specific meaning. Bricked is bricked.
      - zeep 9y ago
        to me, soft bricked means that you have to do something out of the ordinary to fix it, something that most people would not know how to do, even if it's just a software problem (maybe it's a new problem that had no known solutions yet)... http://unbrick.itcse.com/soft-brick-vs-hard-bricked-vs-broken-android-device/ http://unbrick.itcse.com/soft-brick-vs-hard-bricked-vs-broke...
at-fates-hands 9y ago
I used to repair smartphones and this was a common phrase when someone would try and install a custom ROM. They would do it wrong and essentially brink the phone. It's weird for me to hear it in software circles, since I've always thought of software as being more malleable. Correct a few lines of code here or there and you're up and running again.
- vetinari 9y ago
  On smartphones, if you do the custom ROM installation badly, there's a chance you will wipe SPL, meaning no way to boot anymore, until you reprogram your flash in external programmer. This is not a case on the PCs; updating or reinstalling operating system will not affect your BIOS or UEFI ability to boot anything in the future[1] [1] with exceptions like Ubuntu 17.10 Intel SPI bug. But hey, exceptions confirm the rule ;).

andrewstuart2 9y ago

I do agree with you, but at the same time, a non-booting OS does essentially mean a heavy-but-useless device for the vast majority of computer users. They'll have to spend their own money taking it in to get the OS reinstalled, and a lot more if they want to try to recover the data still on the file system.

kbenson 9y ago
Or use some other computer and a USB key fob to create a bootable USB disk that can fix it, and reading the directions on how to boot from it on their phone while actually at the computer in question. Of have their kids do as much. We're probably a few days at most from something like that being put together (possibly by MS or AMD themselves) if it hasn't already. It's not 2005, there's a much higher population of people that have at least enough experience to follow directions such as that.

rdtsc 9y ago

That's fair, I updated the title. I though bricking was a shorter title but your point is true.

mattnewton 9y ago

Fair point, though for a typical end user this might be indistinguishable

zeep 9y ago

You appear to be talking about soft brick vs hard brick? neither hard brick or soft brick is physically broken though...

chrisper 9y ago
"Bricked" refers to that your device can now be used as a brick and nothing else... at least that's how I always understood it.
da_chicken 9y ago
Brick means "to render a device permanently inoperable." There is no hard or soft involved. Bricked is bricked. If you can recover the device without replacing hardware or components, you didn't brick it, you just fucked it up.
- korethr 9y ago
  I think it's fair to say that different people have different thresholds for "bricked" depending on their awareness, willingness, and ability with regard to various repair techniques that may be to hand. To my mother, a virus that causes her laptop to bluescreen upon boot is bricked. There's nothing she can do about that. To me, you gotta do something like wreck the firmware, and even that's not quite permanent, as I am not afraid of soldering tools.
  - josteink 9y ago
    Your grandma is not going to say the machine is “bricked”. She will say it’s not working. Bricked is a technical term used by techies, and it has one specific meaning. Bricked is bricked.
    - zeep 9y ago
      to me, soft bricked means that you have to do something out of the ordinary to fix it, something that most people would not know how to do, even if it's just a software problem (maybe it's a new problem that had no known solutions yet)... http://unbrick.itcse.com/soft-brick-vs-hard-bricked-vs-broken-android-device/ http://unbrick.itcse.com/soft-brick-vs-hard-bricked-vs-broke...

at-fates-hands 9y ago

I used to repair smartphones and this was a common phrase when someone would try and install a custom ROM. They would do it wrong and essentially brink the phone. It's weird for me to hear it in software circles, since I've always thought of software as being more malleable. Correct a few lines of code here or there and you're up and running again.

vetinari 9y ago
On smartphones, if you do the custom ROM installation badly, there's a chance you will wipe SPL, meaning no way to boot anymore, until you reprogram your flash in external programmer. This is not a case on the PCs; updating or reinstalling operating system will not affect your BIOS or UEFI ability to boot anything in the future[1] [1] with exceptions like Ubuntu 17.10 Intel SPI bug. But hey, exceptions confirm the rule ;).