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It's nice that "Autistic Prodigies" are gaining more attention, and that some of that attention is starting to focus more on the problems these kids face instea

It's nice that "Autistic Prodigies" are gaining more attention, and that some of that attention is starting to focus more on the problems these kids face instead of just their abilities. My significant other works in a classroom of kids who are on the spectrum. One of her boys, 6 years old I believe, has the entire transit map (all routes, stop numbers, and stop times) memorized for one of the largest cities in the world. When you meet him he asks what bus or train you take, and then he recites back to you every single stop number on the route and the next 10 arrival times at each stop. It's awe inspiring. But that's on a good day for him. On a bad day he just sits and pretends he is a transit driver, going through the routes in his mind, for 10 or 12 hours at a time. Any type of interruption results in loss of control and mayhem. There is a huge amount of work to do in this area still. Most of these kids with incredible abilities are not receiving the help and support they need in order to ever be in a position where they can join society and use them for good.

wst_ 9y ago
Indeed, it's nice. And yet I can't stop wondering why no one ever write articles about much larger group of autistic people whom fate is much worse, IMHO. I am talking about the kids, but most importantly about adults, who are almost normal, to the point that you wouldn't notice in most cases, unless they do something strange occasionally (HFA, mild Asperger's, mild autism.) About all these creeps, weirdos, nerds and morons without friends, very often in deep depression, sometimes suicidal. Bullied in childhood and very often having good job and being an experts in what they do. Lonely experts usually - creep once, creep forever, you know. These people require attention, too. Attention and social recognition. And so often you can read only about baby cases and savants.
- Nav_Panel 9y ago
  > And yet I can't stop wondering why no one ever write articles about much larger group of autistic people whom fate is much worse, IMHO Second half of this first: > autistic people whom fate is much worse, IMHO It's astounding to me that you find "creeps, weirdos, nerds and morons without friends" to be a worse fate than "On a bad day he just sits and pretends he is a transit driver, going through the routes in his mind, for 10 or 12 hours at a time". I'm one of those miserable "bullied in childhood" types and I'm still thankful that I'm able to participate in society and pursue my interests. A severely disabled person will never be able to do this. I can think up ethical frameworks that'd result in the judgment that social misfits have it worse than extremely disabled individuals, but they'd be tough to justify on various levels. > no one ever write articles [about nerds] They do, if you know where to look[1][2]... but they're unpopular, for various reasons (cultural zeitgeists, also consider the nature of popularity/zeitgeists and how a "nerd" might fit into that). 1: https://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=2091#comment-326664 https://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=2091#comment-326664 2: http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/01/untitled/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/01/untitled/
  - Will_Parker 9y ago
    > It's astounding to me that you find "creeps, weirdos, nerds and morons without friends" to be a worse fate than "On a bad day he just sits and pretends he is a transit driver, going through the routes in his mind, for 10 or 12 hours at a time". On a bad day I spend 10 or 12 hours at a time watching gaming streams on Twitch, I'm not sure it's so fundamentally different. (I'm high functioning enough to succeed in my career and fake it in social situations, but not enough to attract a mate.)
    - magic_beans 9y ago
      Don't underestimate hygiene and fashionable dressing. Don't call a person a "mate."
      - Will_Parker 9y ago
        3 : one of a pair: such as a : either member of a couple and especially a married couple b : either member of a breeding pair of animals c : either of two matched objects Seriously, what's wrong with that?
        travisjungroth 9y ago
        The phrase “attract a mate” is used more for animals than people. When you use it to talk about yourself, it has a tone of referring to the person you’re looking for like an animal. (Same for “breed” and “female”). If you said “find a partner”, “find a match”, “attract a partner”, “get a boyfriend/girlfriend”, it wouldn’t have the same meaning and would be less off-putting.
        lurr 9y ago
        I don't think saying "find a mate" on hacker news is the problem. Why nitpick trivial things like this on someone you have never met?
        9y ago
- watwut 9y ago
  Not all creeps and weirdos (or nerds) have autism. And many high functioning autists are not creepy. Some are, but not enough to make this assumption fair to all of high functioning autists who while a bit weird or hard to date, are not creeps.
  - gt_ 9y ago
    Good point. Most of the adults are, however, unemployed.
    - nicoburns 9y ago
      I'm not at all sure this is true, I reckon there's a huge number of people with autistic traits who you just wouldnt notice are autistic (and who tend to be employed, and largely living normal lives)
      - gt_ 9y ago
        Yeah, makes sense.
      - watwut 9y ago
        I remember being told the same - that most autistic are not among high fuctioning. If you have only few traits you don't qualify as autistic Afaik.
        wst_ 9y ago
        There is no HFA diagnosis anymore, isn't it? It's just a spectrum and depends of severity you get your place somewhere in between. Besides, as an adult it's difficult to tell about your traits when you lived your entire life learning to cope with society, often by trial and error, not knowing what's "wrong" with you. At some point you learn some rules that allows you to at least work in peace, leaving you exhausted in the evenings. At that point it's extremely difficult for you to give naive (as child would do) answers to test questions. The traits required to get the diagnosis are explained[1]. The field hasn't matured yet and even kids sometimes can't get proper diagnosis[2], not to mention adults. Above all the adult women are in the worst position as their traits differ to some extend and also they show more empathy than men. 1: https://www.autismspeaks.org/what-autism/diagnosis/dsm-5-diagnostic-criteria https://www.autismspeaks.org/what-autism/diagnosis/dsm-5-dia... 2: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100322131423.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100322131423.h... Edit: Formatting and typo.
- BearGoesChirp 9y ago
  >people whom fate is much worse, IMHO This is such a hard call to make, because the more severe the autism, the harder it is to know how happy they are. Perhaps the person who is totally into trains who spends their entire day playing with trains and train simulators and watching videos of trains is really happy. But maybe they are still lonely, but don't really know how to let others know? The higher functioning individual is able to let others know how lonely they are, and they are often attacked for it, but is that really worse than being lonely without the ability to even communicate that?
QAPereo 9y ago
There is a huge amount of work to do in this area still. Most of these kids with incredible abilities are not receiving the help and support they need in order to ever be in a position where they can join society and use them for good. A loss for society too; we need these people at least as much as they need us. I wish that we, as a society were genuinely committed to mental/developmental health the way we’re obsessed with longevity. It’s not just people with autism, but a whole range of issues such as schizophrenia and bipolar disorder who have as much or more to contribute as the rest of us. How many “Rain Men” or “Beautiful Mind(s)” have languished and suffered because they didn’t get anything like support?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
nkrisc 9y ago
Pure speculation, but it's cases like such as the one you mention that make me think there's a reason most humans can't memorize every route and stop and times for the 10 largest transit systems in the world. It appears on the outside that other important functions are surely sacrificed to some extent for that ability.
gt_ 9y ago
Note that autism lasts throughout one’s life. “These kids” with autism become adults with autism. Many adults with autism were undiagnosed as children and lived incredibly difficult lives as a result.
- BearGoesChirp 9y ago
  I feel like autistic adults are never given similar attention to autistic children. My person (and poorly informed) opinion is that the main driving factor is that autistic adults don't have advocates for themselves like autistic children do. A parent can do far more to bring attention to their autistic children than an autistic adult can do to bring attention to themselves. Add in society's favoring of children over adults and the complexities of adulthood (adults who physically act out are much harder to restrain, and there is the whole issue of sexuality that isn't nearly as present in autistic kids) and we have a system that focuses attention almost exclusively on kids. I wonder what happens to autistic adults. Do they end up in mental institutions, prisons, living independently, or dead?

wst_ 9y ago

Indeed, it's nice. And yet I can't stop wondering why no one ever write articles about much larger group of autistic people whom fate is much worse, IMHO. I am talking about the kids, but most importantly about adults, who are almost normal, to the point that you wouldn't notice in most cases, unless they do something strange occasionally (HFA, mild Asperger's, mild autism.) About all these creeps, weirdos, nerds and morons without friends, very often in deep depression, sometimes suicidal. Bullied in childhood and very often having good job and being an experts in what they do. Lonely experts usually - creep once, creep forever, you know. These people require attention, too. Attention and social recognition. And so often you can read only about baby cases and savants.

Nav_Panel 9y ago
> And yet I can't stop wondering why no one ever write articles about much larger group of autistic people whom fate is much worse, IMHO Second half of this first: > autistic people whom fate is much worse, IMHO It's astounding to me that you find "creeps, weirdos, nerds and morons without friends" to be a worse fate than "On a bad day he just sits and pretends he is a transit driver, going through the routes in his mind, for 10 or 12 hours at a time". I'm one of those miserable "bullied in childhood" types and I'm still thankful that I'm able to participate in society and pursue my interests. A severely disabled person will never be able to do this. I can think up ethical frameworks that'd result in the judgment that social misfits have it worse than extremely disabled individuals, but they'd be tough to justify on various levels. > no one ever write articles [about nerds] They do, if you know where to look[1][2]... but they're unpopular, for various reasons (cultural zeitgeists, also consider the nature of popularity/zeitgeists and how a "nerd" might fit into that). 1: https://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=2091#comment-326664 https://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=2091#comment-326664 2: http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/01/untitled/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/01/untitled/
- Will_Parker 9y ago
  > It's astounding to me that you find "creeps, weirdos, nerds and morons without friends" to be a worse fate than "On a bad day he just sits and pretends he is a transit driver, going through the routes in his mind, for 10 or 12 hours at a time". On a bad day I spend 10 or 12 hours at a time watching gaming streams on Twitch, I'm not sure it's so fundamentally different. (I'm high functioning enough to succeed in my career and fake it in social situations, but not enough to attract a mate.)
  - magic_beans 9y ago
    Don't underestimate hygiene and fashionable dressing. Don't call a person a "mate."
    - Will_Parker 9y ago
      3 : one of a pair: such as a : either member of a couple and especially a married couple b : either member of a breeding pair of animals c : either of two matched objects Seriously, what's wrong with that?
      - travisjungroth 9y ago
        The phrase “attract a mate” is used more for animals than people. When you use it to talk about yourself, it has a tone of referring to the person you’re looking for like an animal. (Same for “breed” and “female”). If you said “find a partner”, “find a match”, “attract a partner”, “get a boyfriend/girlfriend”, it wouldn’t have the same meaning and would be less off-putting.
        lurr 9y ago
        I don't think saying "find a mate" on hacker news is the problem. Why nitpick trivial things like this on someone you have never met?
        9y ago
watwut 9y ago
Not all creeps and weirdos (or nerds) have autism. And many high functioning autists are not creepy. Some are, but not enough to make this assumption fair to all of high functioning autists who while a bit weird or hard to date, are not creeps.
- gt_ 9y ago
  Good point. Most of the adults are, however, unemployed.
  - nicoburns 9y ago
    I'm not at all sure this is true, I reckon there's a huge number of people with autistic traits who you just wouldnt notice are autistic (and who tend to be employed, and largely living normal lives)
    - gt_ 9y ago
      Yeah, makes sense.
    - watwut 9y ago
      I remember being told the same - that most autistic are not among high fuctioning. If you have only few traits you don't qualify as autistic Afaik.
      - wst_ 9y ago
        There is no HFA diagnosis anymore, isn't it? It's just a spectrum and depends of severity you get your place somewhere in between. Besides, as an adult it's difficult to tell about your traits when you lived your entire life learning to cope with society, often by trial and error, not knowing what's "wrong" with you. At some point you learn some rules that allows you to at least work in peace, leaving you exhausted in the evenings. At that point it's extremely difficult for you to give naive (as child would do) answers to test questions. The traits required to get the diagnosis are explained[1]. The field hasn't matured yet and even kids sometimes can't get proper diagnosis[2], not to mention adults. Above all the adult women are in the worst position as their traits differ to some extend and also they show more empathy than men. 1: https://www.autismspeaks.org/what-autism/diagnosis/dsm-5-diagnostic-criteria https://www.autismspeaks.org/what-autism/diagnosis/dsm-5-dia... 2: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100322131423.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100322131423.h... Edit: Formatting and typo.
BearGoesChirp 9y ago
>people whom fate is much worse, IMHO This is such a hard call to make, because the more severe the autism, the harder it is to know how happy they are. Perhaps the person who is totally into trains who spends their entire day playing with trains and train simulators and watching videos of trains is really happy. But maybe they are still lonely, but don't really know how to let others know? The higher functioning individual is able to let others know how lonely they are, and they are often attacked for it, but is that really worse than being lonely without the ability to even communicate that?

QAPereo 9y ago

There is a huge amount of work to do in this area still. Most of these kids with incredible abilities are not receiving the help and support they need in order to ever be in a position where they can join society and use them for good. A loss for society too; we need these people at least as much as they need us. I wish that we, as a society were genuinely committed to mental/developmental health the way we’re obsessed with longevity. It’s not just people with autism, but a whole range of issues such as schizophrenia and bipolar disorder who have as much or more to contribute as the rest of us. How many “Rain Men” or “Beautiful Mind(s)” have languished and suffered because they didn’t get anything like support?

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

nkrisc 9y ago

Pure speculation, but it's cases like such as the one you mention that make me think there's a reason most humans can't memorize every route and stop and times for the 10 largest transit systems in the world. It appears on the outside that other important functions are surely sacrificed to some extent for that ability.

gt_ 9y ago

Note that autism lasts throughout one’s life. “These kids” with autism become adults with autism. Many adults with autism were undiagnosed as children and lived incredibly difficult lives as a result.

BearGoesChirp 9y ago
I feel like autistic adults are never given similar attention to autistic children. My person (and poorly informed) opinion is that the main driving factor is that autistic adults don't have advocates for themselves like autistic children do. A parent can do far more to bring attention to their autistic children than an autistic adult can do to bring attention to themselves. Add in society's favoring of children over adults and the complexities of adulthood (adults who physically act out are much harder to restrain, and there is the whole issue of sexuality that isn't nearly as present in autistic kids) and we have a system that focuses attention almost exclusively on kids. I wonder what happens to autistic adults. Do they end up in mental institutions, prisons, living independently, or dead?