4 ms·

Well, half the Old Testament is one tribe murdering another, and God either doesn't care, or support one side (usually the victorious one - if it's Jews it's be

by ajuc 9y ago

Well, half the Old Testament is one tribe murdering another, and God either doesn't care, or support one side (usually the victorious one - if it's Jews it's because they were nice, if it's not Jews it's because Jews were sinful at that particular moment :) ). He tells Saul (if I remember correctly) to murder subjugated people, women and children included, so at that moment to any sane person God is actually acting as a force of evil, corrupting the believers, who wanted to save them (for a life of slavery most probably, but still, better than murder). He makes a bet with the devil over Hiob's life, and kills his entire family (or allows it to be killed, same thing) just to see that Hiob's indeed faithful (which he knew beforehand because he's omniscient, but whatever). God of Old Testament even calls itself "jealous", and tells people he "punishes sins of ancestors on X generations" (3 or 4 if I remember correctly). Kinda angry and evil, isn't it?

Xeoncross 9y ago
> half the Old Testament is one tribe murdering another That hasn't changed, it's only gotten worse. A huge percentage of this world kills, riots, and is violent. Is God supposed to handcuff everyone? God's primary purpose isn't to keep everyone safe in a little sealed box where they can't hurt anything. However, one day he will put an end to to sin and evil once and for all. The reason he doesn't is that he continues to extend mercy to as many people as he knows will take it before that time comes. (Also, tribe is the wrong word. Many of these countries/civilizations had millions of people in them with wars being fought between armies of hundreds of thousands of soldiers.)
- nkrisc 9y ago
  A huge percentage? I reckon the vast majority of individual people alive today are pretty peaceful. God's primary purpose is as a tool for the religious ruling elite to exert control over the followers. Do Man's desires align with God's will, or does God's will conveniently align with Man's desires? Seems we always have only Man's word on the matter.
  - Xeoncross 9y ago
    It is impossible for men to have written the bible. It was written over ~1,500 years by about 40 different people across multiple empires and contents - yet it's unified in the story. It's over 20% prophecy, much of which was has already come to pass about nations or events (some of which features Israel). There is no book that even comes close to the complexity required for the bible to have been written.
    - nkrisc 9y ago
      > It is impossible for men to have written the bible. That's quite the claim, since historical evidence sure seems to show every known biblical text was scribed by human hands. > yet it's unified in the story That's certainly open to interpretation, to say the least. Many of the story elements and arcs can be found in cultures that pre-date Christ. > much of which was has already come to pass about nations or events Over thousands of years one can find examples for any broad prophecy. Once again we're left with nothing authoritative on the matter except the word of Man, that we're apparently expected to take on faith alone.
      - Xeoncross 9y ago
        > show every known biblical text was scribed by human hands Yes, the bible itself claims this (2 Peter 1:21). I was referring to men coming up with the idea and colluding over a millennia. > Many of the story elements and arcs can be found in cultures that pre-date Christ. That is because everything in the New Testament (including Christ's life) was an extension of what had already be told for thousands of years earlier. > Over thousands of years one can find examples for any broad prophecy. These aren't broad prophecies. They are specific accounts of events such as the destruction method of Tarshish by a Greek commander (Alexander the great) or the name of a future Persian King who would command the rebuilding of the temple (Darius the Persian) or the return of Israel as a nation after Daniels 69 weeks had elapsed, etc... The most extensive prophecies are focused on Jesus himself and what he would do and how he would die (Isaiah 53, etc..).
        9y ago
- ajuc 9y ago
  More than 99% of all people alive today never murdered anyone, nor participated in any war. Slavery is very rare. In most of the world there are at least partly objective court system, with the possibility to appeal. In what way exactly things got worse according to you? And the important thing about Old Testament is - it portraits wars of Jewish states/tribes as either having the support of the God (because they were doing what God said to them, so they deserve to enslave/kill the pagans and take their land), or going against the God and thus - losing (so the pagans got the support of the God in the murdering or enslaving the Jews as a punishment). God's purpose is whatever he chooses, but if you do such things you aren't "good" and "loving". You're basically playing Starcraft with people as units. It's evil.

by ajuc 9y ago

Xeoncross 9y ago

> half the Old Testament is one tribe murdering another That hasn't changed, it's only gotten worse. A huge percentage of this world kills, riots, and is violent. Is God supposed to handcuff everyone? God's primary purpose isn't to keep everyone safe in a little sealed box where they can't hurt anything. However, one day he will put an end to to sin and evil once and for all. The reason he doesn't is that he continues to extend mercy to as many people as he knows will take it before that time comes. (Also, tribe is the wrong word. Many of these countries/civilizations had millions of people in them with wars being fought between armies of hundreds of thousands of soldiers.)

nkrisc 9y ago
A huge percentage? I reckon the vast majority of individual people alive today are pretty peaceful. God's primary purpose is as a tool for the religious ruling elite to exert control over the followers. Do Man's desires align with God's will, or does God's will conveniently align with Man's desires? Seems we always have only Man's word on the matter.
- Xeoncross 9y ago
  It is impossible for men to have written the bible. It was written over ~1,500 years by about 40 different people across multiple empires and contents - yet it's unified in the story. It's over 20% prophecy, much of which was has already come to pass about nations or events (some of which features Israel). There is no book that even comes close to the complexity required for the bible to have been written.
  - nkrisc 9y ago
    > It is impossible for men to have written the bible. That's quite the claim, since historical evidence sure seems to show every known biblical text was scribed by human hands. > yet it's unified in the story That's certainly open to interpretation, to say the least. Many of the story elements and arcs can be found in cultures that pre-date Christ. > much of which was has already come to pass about nations or events Over thousands of years one can find examples for any broad prophecy. Once again we're left with nothing authoritative on the matter except the word of Man, that we're apparently expected to take on faith alone.
    - Xeoncross 9y ago
      > show every known biblical text was scribed by human hands Yes, the bible itself claims this (2 Peter 1:21). I was referring to men coming up with the idea and colluding over a millennia. > Many of the story elements and arcs can be found in cultures that pre-date Christ. That is because everything in the New Testament (including Christ's life) was an extension of what had already be told for thousands of years earlier. > Over thousands of years one can find examples for any broad prophecy. These aren't broad prophecies. They are specific accounts of events such as the destruction method of Tarshish by a Greek commander (Alexander the great) or the name of a future Persian King who would command the rebuilding of the temple (Darius the Persian) or the return of Israel as a nation after Daniels 69 weeks had elapsed, etc... The most extensive prophecies are focused on Jesus himself and what he would do and how he would die (Isaiah 53, etc..).
      - 9y ago
ajuc 9y ago
More than 99% of all people alive today never murdered anyone, nor participated in any war. Slavery is very rare. In most of the world there are at least partly objective court system, with the possibility to appeal. In what way exactly things got worse according to you? And the important thing about Old Testament is - it portraits wars of Jewish states/tribes as either having the support of the God (because they were doing what God said to them, so they deserve to enslave/kill the pagans and take their land), or going against the God and thus - losing (so the pagans got the support of the God in the murdering or enslaving the Jews as a punishment). God's purpose is whatever he chooses, but if you do such things you aren't "good" and "loving". You're basically playing Starcraft with people as units. It's evil.