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Facebook buys servers to meet their needs, not to grind away on useless "proof of work" systems. They're also interested in aggressively optimizing how that ca

Facebook buys servers to meet their needs, not to grind away on useless "proof of work" systems. They're also interested in aggressively optimizing how that capacity is used, and where possible work to reduce power consumption, compute requirements, and other such things. They can alter how their software interfaces with their systems, how many requests it makes, what kind of data they return and how often. Facebook can also power down systems that aren't needed at their current load. Bitcoin is the opposite: The more work you put in, the more you stand to benefit. You must run your systems flat out, all the time, no breaks. Apart from more efficient mining hardware, there's no way to optimize how it mines, it's 100% utilization all the time.

miscreanity 9y ago
What's the point of security staff at a bank or military installation? If things are slow, just send guards home. We'd be able to save millions.
- dullgiulio 9y ago
  You might be aware that, outside of the world of cryptocurrencies, people have been exchanging money and other assets totally fine without proof-of-work since we stopped living on trees.
  - miscreanity 9y ago
    A better argument would be to point toward proof of stake or other consensus systems like that used in Ripple. Until there is a more effective method, Proof of work is a highly effective alternative to physical security. Trying to pass off counterfeit government currency has consequences that involve work by numerous individuals and organizations - and they don't always succeed. Proof of work in a crypto system is effectively successful all of the time, instantly. The same applies to any form of money and fraudulent activity since the beginning of history. There is always work involved, and the effectiveness of that work has never been greater than with crypto... the consequences of which must be kept in mind - just like existing governments and systems, crypto can be used to control its participants.
bamboozled 9y ago
I believe if you're a serious miner, then you're just as interested in building the most energy efficient system possible [1], that way you will receive the greatest return on your investments. Just like FB, Amazon, Google etc. I would also say the majority of miners buy their own servers, so I don't get your point on that front. > You must run your systems flat out, all the time, no breaks. Apart from more efficient mining hardware, there's no way to optimize how it mines, it's 100% utilization all the time. Do you have the same problem with other projects such as SETI@Home and Folding@Home? How about serious gamers or people who watch a really big screen TV all night while on their phone hardly watching it? I also think that you're making assumptions about these large tech companies by thinking they really do care about energy efficiency as an absolute top priority. While I'm sure it's a consideration, it doesn't mean it always gets the front seat. Remember these companies had time to make this a focus just like new coins are making energy efficiency a priority [2]. Crypto currencies are a new technology and need time to evolve,they will become more efficient in the near future. [1] http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/geothermal-gold-why-bitcoin-mines-are-moving-iceland-1468295 http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/geothermal-gold-why-bitcoin-mines-a... [2] https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/bitcoin-alternative-nem-xem-officially-launches-with-100-original-codebase-cryptocurrency-300064836.html https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/bitcoin-alternative...
- mcv 9y ago
  SETI@Home and Folding@Home actually solve real problems. Are the calculations done by bitcoin miners actually applied in a way that accomplishes anything other than being used as a score to decide who gets a new bitcoin? The problem with bitcoin is not that it costs energy, but that it's specifically designed to waste energy. If it was designed to help SETI and Folding, every conceivable @Home problem would probably have been solved by now.
- astrodust 9y ago
  SETI@Home doesn't pay out, it's purely voluntary. If it's too hot out and I don't to turn things off that's fine, no big deal. If I turn off any mining equipment I get nothing. Zero. I'm no longer participating in any meaningful capacity. I have no "vote", I have no upside. > How about serious gamers or people who watch a really big screen TV all night while on their phone hardly watching it? Let's not "whatabout" this.

miscreanity 9y ago

What's the point of security staff at a bank or military installation? If things are slow, just send guards home. We'd be able to save millions.

dullgiulio 9y ago
You might be aware that, outside of the world of cryptocurrencies, people have been exchanging money and other assets totally fine without proof-of-work since we stopped living on trees.
- miscreanity 9y ago
  A better argument would be to point toward proof of stake or other consensus systems like that used in Ripple. Until there is a more effective method, Proof of work is a highly effective alternative to physical security. Trying to pass off counterfeit government currency has consequences that involve work by numerous individuals and organizations - and they don't always succeed. Proof of work in a crypto system is effectively successful all of the time, instantly. The same applies to any form of money and fraudulent activity since the beginning of history. There is always work involved, and the effectiveness of that work has never been greater than with crypto... the consequences of which must be kept in mind - just like existing governments and systems, crypto can be used to control its participants.

bamboozled 9y ago

I believe if you're a serious miner, then you're just as interested in building the most energy efficient system possible [1], that way you will receive the greatest return on your investments. Just like FB, Amazon, Google etc. I would also say the majority of miners buy their own servers, so I don't get your point on that front. > You must run your systems flat out, all the time, no breaks. Apart from more efficient mining hardware, there's no way to optimize how it mines, it's 100% utilization all the time. Do you have the same problem with other projects such as SETI@Home and Folding@Home? How about serious gamers or people who watch a really big screen TV all night while on their phone hardly watching it? I also think that you're making assumptions about these large tech companies by thinking they really do care about energy efficiency as an absolute top priority. While I'm sure it's a consideration, it doesn't mean it always gets the front seat. Remember these companies had time to make this a focus just like new coins are making energy efficiency a priority [2]. Crypto currencies are a new technology and need time to evolve,they will become more efficient in the near future. [1] http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/geothermal-gold-why-bitcoin-mines-are-moving-iceland-1468295 http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/geothermal-gold-why-bitcoin-mines-a... [2] https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/bitcoin-alternative-nem-xem-officially-launches-with-100-original-codebase-cryptocurrency-300064836.html https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/bitcoin-alternative...

mcv 9y ago
SETI@Home and Folding@Home actually solve real problems. Are the calculations done by bitcoin miners actually applied in a way that accomplishes anything other than being used as a score to decide who gets a new bitcoin? The problem with bitcoin is not that it costs energy, but that it's specifically designed to waste energy. If it was designed to help SETI and Folding, every conceivable @Home problem would probably have been solved by now.
astrodust 9y ago
SETI@Home doesn't pay out, it's purely voluntary. If it's too hot out and I don't to turn things off that's fine, no big deal. If I turn off any mining equipment I get nothing. Zero. I'm no longer participating in any meaningful capacity. I have no "vote", I have no upside. > How about serious gamers or people who watch a really big screen TV all night while on their phone hardly watching it? Let's not "whatabout" this.