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A start would be the pervasiveness of homelessness throughout the history of the United States as contrasted with its abolition in the USSR and its dramatic ret

A start would be the pervasiveness of homelessness throughout the history of the United States as contrasted with its abolition in the USSR and its dramatic return with post-soviet privatization.

jules 9y ago
Why don't you start a communist commune? You can do that in a capitalist system. You can't set up a capitalist commune in a communist system because they'll put you in the gulag.
- classwarsteve 9y ago
  Actually you should check out the long history of western capitalist supported right wing death squads that have been sent to break up communist governments. https://www.globalresearch.ca/a-timeline-of-cia-atrocities/5348804 https://www.globalresearch.ca/a-timeline-of-cia-atrocities/5...
  - AnimalMuppet 9y ago
    And how does that answer jules' point? You sound like you're just looking for a chance to spew your talking points, rather than actually having a conversation with us.
    - classwarsteve 9y ago
      My point is that Jules is wrong that capitalists will permit you to set up a communist society. Perhaps you should revisit the cold war. In addition, a commune within a capitalist society would still be reliant on the labor of an external, exploited proletarian class. Communism is internationalist. Ultimately this is the failure of first world social democratic programs that provide decent gains for their working classes but do so at the expense of oppressed peoples in the global south. Referring to them as talking points without refuting them sounds a whole lot like trying to dismiss the argument without dealing with the contents. Don't get upset and fall back on procedural obfuscation if you're trying to have a conversation with me.
      - AnimalMuppet 9y ago
        > My point is that Jules is wrong that capitalists will permit you to set up a communist society. The non-communist countries tried to sabotage the communist ones, true. (And vice versa - a cold war is like that.) That is not at all the same as saying that, within a capitalist countries, the capitalists will not permit you to set up a commune. Your argument (and link) therefore do not actually address jules' point at all. > In addition, a commune within a capitalist society would still be reliant on the labor of an external, exploited proletarian class. How does that address jules' point (or even mine)? > Communism is internationalist. Ultimately this is the failure of first world social democratic programs that provide decent gains for their working classes but do so at the expense of oppressed peoples in the global south. How does that address jules' point (or even mine)? Starting a commune in the US doesn't exploit the oppressed in the global south whatsoever. This is why I say it looks like you're just looking to spew talking points. You're saying a lot, but it's not relevant to the subject.
        classwarsteve 9y ago
        1. Then perhaps you'd be happier if I were to point you in the direction of The Black Panthers or MOVE or any of the leftist victims of the COINTELPRO operations. 2 & 3. What I'm trying to help you understand is that a commune within a capitalist state that doesn't challenge the structures of capitalist society is not a communist project. Please calm down, it's clear you're getting upset. I'm trying to help you understand.
        dang 9y ago
        As the site guidelines make clear, you can't use HN primarily for ideological battle, regardless of ideology. Since that's clearly all you've been doing with this account, we've banned it. Please don't create accounts to break the site guidelines with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        dang 9y ago
        Would you please refrain from doing ideological flamewar on HN? Surely you're aware it's the exact opposite of what we're trying to have here? I realize other people were doing just that, but that's all the more reason not to feed it. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
cjalmeida 9y ago
Likely because being homeless in USSR was a crime and motive to send one to a Gulag?
- classwarsteve 9y ago
  At least in the USSR you were guaranteed housing as opposed to the United States where homelessness is largely criminalized while the homeless are offered little support and in fact regularly have their lives upended because they're considered an eyesore. https://www.nlchp.org/documents/No_Safe_Place https://www.nlchp.org/documents/No_Safe_Place

A start would be the pervasiveness of homelessness throughout the history of the United States as contrasted with its abolition in the USSR and its dramatic return with post-soviet privatization.

jules 9y ago

Why don't you start a communist commune? You can do that in a capitalist system. You can't set up a capitalist commune in a communist system because they'll put you in the gulag.

classwarsteve 9y ago
Actually you should check out the long history of western capitalist supported right wing death squads that have been sent to break up communist governments. https://www.globalresearch.ca/a-timeline-of-cia-atrocities/5348804 https://www.globalresearch.ca/a-timeline-of-cia-atrocities/5...
- AnimalMuppet 9y ago
  And how does that answer jules' point? You sound like you're just looking for a chance to spew your talking points, rather than actually having a conversation with us.
  - classwarsteve 9y ago
    My point is that Jules is wrong that capitalists will permit you to set up a communist society. Perhaps you should revisit the cold war. In addition, a commune within a capitalist society would still be reliant on the labor of an external, exploited proletarian class. Communism is internationalist. Ultimately this is the failure of first world social democratic programs that provide decent gains for their working classes but do so at the expense of oppressed peoples in the global south. Referring to them as talking points without refuting them sounds a whole lot like trying to dismiss the argument without dealing with the contents. Don't get upset and fall back on procedural obfuscation if you're trying to have a conversation with me.
    - AnimalMuppet 9y ago
      > My point is that Jules is wrong that capitalists will permit you to set up a communist society. The non-communist countries tried to sabotage the communist ones, true. (And vice versa - a cold war is like that.) That is not at all the same as saying that, within a capitalist countries, the capitalists will not permit you to set up a commune. Your argument (and link) therefore do not actually address jules' point at all. > In addition, a commune within a capitalist society would still be reliant on the labor of an external, exploited proletarian class. How does that address jules' point (or even mine)? > Communism is internationalist. Ultimately this is the failure of first world social democratic programs that provide decent gains for their working classes but do so at the expense of oppressed peoples in the global south. How does that address jules' point (or even mine)? Starting a commune in the US doesn't exploit the oppressed in the global south whatsoever. This is why I say it looks like you're just looking to spew talking points. You're saying a lot, but it's not relevant to the subject.
      - classwarsteve 9y ago
        1. Then perhaps you'd be happier if I were to point you in the direction of The Black Panthers or MOVE or any of the leftist victims of the COINTELPRO operations. 2 & 3. What I'm trying to help you understand is that a commune within a capitalist state that doesn't challenge the structures of capitalist society is not a communist project. Please calm down, it's clear you're getting upset. I'm trying to help you understand.
        dang 9y ago
        As the site guidelines make clear, you can't use HN primarily for ideological battle, regardless of ideology. Since that's clearly all you've been doing with this account, we've banned it. Please don't create accounts to break the site guidelines with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      - dang 9y ago
        Would you please refrain from doing ideological flamewar on HN? Surely you're aware it's the exact opposite of what we're trying to have here? I realize other people were doing just that, but that's all the more reason not to feed it. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

cjalmeida 9y ago

Likely because being homeless in USSR was a crime and motive to send one to a Gulag?

classwarsteve 9y ago
At least in the USSR you were guaranteed housing as opposed to the United States where homelessness is largely criminalized while the homeless are offered little support and in fact regularly have their lives upended because they're considered an eyesore. https://www.nlchp.org/documents/No_Safe_Place https://www.nlchp.org/documents/No_Safe_Place