9 ms·

My takeaways: show shovelling can cause heart attacks because of the type of exertion you're doing + the cold weather, and it's much more likely in men because

My takeaways: show shovelling can cause heart attacks because of the type of exertion you're doing + the cold weather, and it's much more likely in men because presumably more men than women shovel snow.

Johnny555 9y ago
it's much more likely in men because presumably more men than women shovel snow. The article said that's a suspicion, but is not a conclusion: The researchers say they suspect that shovelling caused heart attacks because men are more likely than women to shovel snow. That may be true, or it might be a sexist assumption. But there may be another explanation for the findings: that women shovel snow in a way that doesn't cause heart attacks.
- nicolashahn 9y ago
  Hence my "presumably." I'd be surprised if that wasn't true, however.
- mhb 9y ago
  Yeah, but it seems a lot more reasonable to suspect that women don't have a unique way of shoveling snow. The author also said To be perfectly scientific, the researchers have no way of knowing know that shovelling [sic] did the guys in. So I guess you can discount the whole thing.
  - Johnny555 9y ago
    While this is just anecdotal, My wife and I have a very different style -- in heavy wet snow, I take a full shovel load before tossing it, while she takes much smaller shovel loads. This is probably a factor of me being larger and stronger than her, but it may also be a safer shoveling style for her to follow.
    - Paul-ish 9y ago
      Especially if it is the valsalva this is the problem. Large loads of snow means bigger effort, means you are more likely to valsalva.
    - michaelt 9y ago
      I think men are also more likely to have internalised a self-image about "manning up" and pushing on when their body is telling them to stop. Or at least, every time I've seen someone staggering under the weight of a pile of chairs they can barely lift or carrying ten bags of shopping from the car in one trip, it's been a man :)
    - astura 9y ago
      Yeah, I'm really baffled by people describing shovelling snow as such a strenuous task. Since HN is mostly men I can assume that these posters are more likely than not men. I'm an out of shape woman and I don't think it's really all that difficult or taxing on my body to shovel snow. I don't mind the physical work but the time consumption is so annoying.
- freehunter 9y ago
  Isn't "all women are naturally and inherently better at shoveling snow" just as sexist of an assumption as "women aren't as likely to shovel snow"? If men are more likely to shovel snow, that's just statistics and sample sizes and can be controlled for to determine its validity. If all women everywhere are so much better at shoveling than men that it produces a statistically measurable outcome in an unrelated study, that is massively huge news about the innate physical differences between genders.
  - Broken_Hippo 9y ago
    This isn't a case of better or worse at shoveling snow, though. I mean, it could be, but that's not what this implies. It simply states that maybe women shovel in a way that doesn't lead to heart attacks so easily, which wouldn't be that far into fantasy. It isn't the first time we've noticed such things. For example, "throwing like a girl" is a thing for most girls, caused by the way the body is put together after puberty (before puberty, males and females throw similarly). There are some exercises that are great for men but not women - it makes the pelvic bone get weird for some women (can't remember the specifics. Its been 20 years). Considering all this, it is quite possible that women naturally use different movements and different muscle groups to do the same job because of their physical differences. And perhaps this causes less strain. Or maybe it is hormones. You know, or maybe more men shovel than women - they just didn't want to rest on such an assumption when they don't know it to be true.

Johnny555 9y ago

it's much more likely in men because presumably more men than women shovel snow. The article said that's a suspicion, but is not a conclusion: The researchers say they suspect that shovelling caused heart attacks because men are more likely than women to shovel snow. That may be true, or it might be a sexist assumption. But there may be another explanation for the findings: that women shovel snow in a way that doesn't cause heart attacks.

nicolashahn 9y ago
Hence my "presumably." I'd be surprised if that wasn't true, however.
mhb 9y ago
Yeah, but it seems a lot more reasonable to suspect that women don't have a unique way of shoveling snow. The author also said To be perfectly scientific, the researchers have no way of knowing know that shovelling [sic] did the guys in. So I guess you can discount the whole thing.
- Johnny555 9y ago
  While this is just anecdotal, My wife and I have a very different style -- in heavy wet snow, I take a full shovel load before tossing it, while she takes much smaller shovel loads. This is probably a factor of me being larger and stronger than her, but it may also be a safer shoveling style for her to follow.
  - Paul-ish 9y ago
    Especially if it is the valsalva this is the problem. Large loads of snow means bigger effort, means you are more likely to valsalva.
  - michaelt 9y ago
    I think men are also more likely to have internalised a self-image about "manning up" and pushing on when their body is telling them to stop. Or at least, every time I've seen someone staggering under the weight of a pile of chairs they can barely lift or carrying ten bags of shopping from the car in one trip, it's been a man :)
  - astura 9y ago
    Yeah, I'm really baffled by people describing shovelling snow as such a strenuous task. Since HN is mostly men I can assume that these posters are more likely than not men. I'm an out of shape woman and I don't think it's really all that difficult or taxing on my body to shovel snow. I don't mind the physical work but the time consumption is so annoying.
freehunter 9y ago
Isn't "all women are naturally and inherently better at shoveling snow" just as sexist of an assumption as "women aren't as likely to shovel snow"? If men are more likely to shovel snow, that's just statistics and sample sizes and can be controlled for to determine its validity. If all women everywhere are so much better at shoveling than men that it produces a statistically measurable outcome in an unrelated study, that is massively huge news about the innate physical differences between genders.
- Broken_Hippo 9y ago
  This isn't a case of better or worse at shoveling snow, though. I mean, it could be, but that's not what this implies. It simply states that maybe women shovel in a way that doesn't lead to heart attacks so easily, which wouldn't be that far into fantasy. It isn't the first time we've noticed such things. For example, "throwing like a girl" is a thing for most girls, caused by the way the body is put together after puberty (before puberty, males and females throw similarly). There are some exercises that are great for men but not women - it makes the pelvic bone get weird for some women (can't remember the specifics. Its been 20 years). Considering all this, it is quite possible that women naturally use different movements and different muscle groups to do the same job because of their physical differences. And perhaps this causes less strain. Or maybe it is hormones. You know, or maybe more men shovel than women - they just didn't want to rest on such an assumption when they don't know it to be true.