7 ms·

Banning smartphones because of distracting apps is equivalent to banning guitars because of heavy metal music. It's the content, not the tool. Schools should

Banning smartphones because of distracting apps is equivalent to banning guitars because of heavy metal music. It's the content, not the tool. Schools should be teaching kids how to use these tools to create content; not just passively consume.

techman9 9y ago
This to me smacks of fear and really some perverse form of protectionism. The whole idea of "schooling" is built upon the premise that there is some fundamental set of knowledge that it's important for students to master before they can function in the world. However, with the advent of computers, the internet, and their miniaturization in the form of smart phones, any piece of human knowledge is instantly retrievable and usable. What's the point of a semester long instruction in algebra or geometry still filled (mostly) with rote memorization of methods and formulas when those methods and formulas are available ubiquitously at the touch of a button. Schools see smartphones as an existential threat and rather than try to adapt their model of instruction to the tools that we all now have, they're attempting to ban them outright. I only see this leading to resentment and anger from students who are accustomed to instant, easy access to information.
- audaxion 9y ago
  It's context. The purpose of memorization, etc. is so that when you look at more complex ideas and concepts, you're not wasting cognitive load on foundational concepts like basic arithmetic.
  - chainsaw10 9y ago
    Very well said. To directly answer GP's question: I took a differential equations class last semester, where the easy part of quite a few problems was to solve a quadratic equation. And it was easy, because my algebra classes had correctly required me to practice that skill (and memorize the quadratic formula). So, you say, I'm never going to take differential equations. And you very well might not. I have two responses to that: 1) That's true, you might not, but the guy sitting next to you will, and he doesn't even know it yet. If you were allowed to opt out of that subject, you both would, and he wouldn't even have a chance to make up for it later. 2) There are plenty of other subjects where the easy part is an algebra concept, and it's only easy because you practiced it years before.
- visarga 9y ago
  > when those methods and formulas are available ubiquitously at the touch of a button Many "formulas" are easy to read but hard to apply effectively.
- Flockster 9y ago
  By that logic math homework must be super easy, since the content is easy to google (and already in the textbook)..
131012 9y ago
It is the tool too. Former teacher here: I taught open project classes, one class with old school desktop computers and one with iPads. The difference between the two techs was immense. Desktops are made for productivity. You have a mouse, a keyboard. It's easy to type weird characters, copy/paste, save, use office suite, etc. Yeah, you know that. You're HN. Ipads are made for consumerism. They lack a good typing device (I admit this specific point is more opinion), menus for more complex tasks are not so easy to use. With an iPads (or a smartphone) you typically scroll, scroll, scroll. Simply saving text students wrote on ipads was such a tedious task for them. I feel most smartphones fall in this category, and as such, I think they have no place in the classroom. Internet in the classroom? Please more. Internet usable only through touchscreen? Never ever.
- ashark 9y ago
  I'm strongly on the side of less tech in (most) classrooms, especially for younger kids, but iPads are pretty awesome if what you're creating involves video, recording audio anywhere other than at a desk, remote-controlling anything, drawing with a pencil/pen-like interface, or any number of other tasks that your average desktop or laptop can't support well without extra hardware, if at all.
- wilsonnb 9y ago
  I agree that a traditional desktop or laptop computer is a more productive text processing machine than an iPad, partially due to the physical keyboard and partially due to limitations in iOS. For other productive tasks like music creation or digital drawing, where text is far less important than it is in programming, writing documents, using a spreadsheet, etc, the iPad is arguably superior to the traditional desktop setup.
  - nrhk 9y ago
    Meh to a certain extent but I'd rather use a giant Wacom on my desktop with all its processing power when using something like Zbrush then to do it over an iPad. Same with music, it's a lot easier to present dense amounts of information when you actually have the real estate to display it.
saint_fiasco 9y ago
I wouldn't allow a guitar in the classroom either, except when they are specifically required, like for music classes.
irrational 9y ago
> banning guitars because of heavy metal music My dad did that with one of my brothers. He ended up building his own electric guitar in shop class. He learned how to play it on the sly when dad wasn't around. Now he has a room full of guitars and teaches kids the evils of Simon and Garfunkel.

techman9 9y ago

This to me smacks of fear and really some perverse form of protectionism. The whole idea of "schooling" is built upon the premise that there is some fundamental set of knowledge that it's important for students to master before they can function in the world. However, with the advent of computers, the internet, and their miniaturization in the form of smart phones, any piece of human knowledge is instantly retrievable and usable. What's the point of a semester long instruction in algebra or geometry still filled (mostly) with rote memorization of methods and formulas when those methods and formulas are available ubiquitously at the touch of a button. Schools see smartphones as an existential threat and rather than try to adapt their model of instruction to the tools that we all now have, they're attempting to ban them outright. I only see this leading to resentment and anger from students who are accustomed to instant, easy access to information.

audaxion 9y ago
It's context. The purpose of memorization, etc. is so that when you look at more complex ideas and concepts, you're not wasting cognitive load on foundational concepts like basic arithmetic.
- chainsaw10 9y ago
  Very well said. To directly answer GP's question: I took a differential equations class last semester, where the easy part of quite a few problems was to solve a quadratic equation. And it was easy, because my algebra classes had correctly required me to practice that skill (and memorize the quadratic formula). So, you say, I'm never going to take differential equations. And you very well might not. I have two responses to that: 1) That's true, you might not, but the guy sitting next to you will, and he doesn't even know it yet. If you were allowed to opt out of that subject, you both would, and he wouldn't even have a chance to make up for it later. 2) There are plenty of other subjects where the easy part is an algebra concept, and it's only easy because you practiced it years before.
visarga 9y ago
> when those methods and formulas are available ubiquitously at the touch of a button Many "formulas" are easy to read but hard to apply effectively.
Flockster 9y ago
By that logic math homework must be super easy, since the content is easy to google (and already in the textbook)..

131012 9y ago

It is the tool too. Former teacher here: I taught open project classes, one class with old school desktop computers and one with iPads. The difference between the two techs was immense. Desktops are made for productivity. You have a mouse, a keyboard. It's easy to type weird characters, copy/paste, save, use office suite, etc. Yeah, you know that. You're HN. Ipads are made for consumerism. They lack a good typing device (I admit this specific point is more opinion), menus for more complex tasks are not so easy to use. With an iPads (or a smartphone) you typically scroll, scroll, scroll. Simply saving text students wrote on ipads was such a tedious task for them. I feel most smartphones fall in this category, and as such, I think they have no place in the classroom. Internet in the classroom? Please more. Internet usable only through touchscreen? Never ever.

ashark 9y ago
I'm strongly on the side of less tech in (most) classrooms, especially for younger kids, but iPads are pretty awesome if what you're creating involves video, recording audio anywhere other than at a desk, remote-controlling anything, drawing with a pencil/pen-like interface, or any number of other tasks that your average desktop or laptop can't support well without extra hardware, if at all.
wilsonnb 9y ago
I agree that a traditional desktop or laptop computer is a more productive text processing machine than an iPad, partially due to the physical keyboard and partially due to limitations in iOS. For other productive tasks like music creation or digital drawing, where text is far less important than it is in programming, writing documents, using a spreadsheet, etc, the iPad is arguably superior to the traditional desktop setup.
- nrhk 9y ago
  Meh to a certain extent but I'd rather use a giant Wacom on my desktop with all its processing power when using something like Zbrush then to do it over an iPad. Same with music, it's a lot easier to present dense amounts of information when you actually have the real estate to display it.

saint_fiasco 9y ago

I wouldn't allow a guitar in the classroom either, except when they are specifically required, like for music classes.

irrational 9y ago

> banning guitars because of heavy metal music My dad did that with one of my brothers. He ended up building his own electric guitar in shop class. He learned how to play it on the sly when dad wasn't around. Now he has a room full of guitars and teaches kids the evils of Simon and Garfunkel.