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Quotas do have their place for instigating change, to more correctly state my views (which are incredibly complex, just like the subject is): I think that they

Quotas do have their place for instigating change, to more correctly state my views (which are incredibly complex, just like the subject is): I think that they rapidly outgrow their usefulness. If you have women in hire/fire positions, in theory the bias should work itself out. It probably wouldn't in reality. It's a nasty situation. We want to make progress as society, which means quantifying that progress (quotas make this impossible). However, at the same time we are trying to make that progress to represent individuals and, yes, place them in lucrative jobs to level the playing field (which quotas assist). > reason to believe that your hiring process is biased and you are missing out on qualified candidates That is to my point. How could you justify that position if you have no way of measuring it? Find 50 lions and 50 white lions, put them in an enclosure and ask a scientist to tell you what percentage of lions are white based on that sample. I'm not saying that we don't have to solve this, or that it has been solved. It hasn't. I really question our approach (and I don't have a better alternative, apart from eradicating gender stereotypes from a young age). Are we still in the 1990's with a social equality facade?

sp332 9y ago
> Are we still in the 1990's with a social equality facade? No, things have gotten worse since the 90's. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/27/women-in-tech_n_6955940.html https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/27/women-in-tech_n_69... Women have a >40% quit rate, so it's not just the hiring practices which need work. https://www.ncwit.org/sites/default/files/resources/womenintech_facts_fullreport_05132016.pdf https://www.ncwit.org/sites/default/files/resources/womenint... (PDF)
- mpweiher 9y ago
  Define "worse". An easy explanation for higher quit rates is that the various programs to get more women into tech worked, but the percentage of women who actually want to be in tech hasn't budged. When you interview both men and women, women actually report higher rates of support from their companies and superiors than the men. It is one of the few areas where there are differences. The other is "enjoy the work", which women rate a lot lower.
ryanbrunner 9y ago
> If you have women in hire/fire positions, in theory the bias should work itself out. It probably wouldn't in reality. I think this is a common, and pretty unfounded claim that people make. In my experience, men and women are both perfectly capable of having harmful opinions on gender roles.

sp332 9y ago

> Are we still in the 1990's with a social equality facade? No, things have gotten worse since the 90's. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/27/women-in-tech_n_6955940.html https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/27/women-in-tech_n_69... Women have a >40% quit rate, so it's not just the hiring practices which need work. https://www.ncwit.org/sites/default/files/resources/womenintech_facts_fullreport_05132016.pdf https://www.ncwit.org/sites/default/files/resources/womenint... (PDF)

mpweiher 9y ago
Define "worse". An easy explanation for higher quit rates is that the various programs to get more women into tech worked, but the percentage of women who actually want to be in tech hasn't budged. When you interview both men and women, women actually report higher rates of support from their companies and superiors than the men. It is one of the few areas where there are differences. The other is "enjoy the work", which women rate a lot lower.

ryanbrunner 9y ago

> If you have women in hire/fire positions, in theory the bias should work itself out. It probably wouldn't in reality. I think this is a common, and pretty unfounded claim that people make. In my experience, men and women are both perfectly capable of having harmful opinions on gender roles.