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That was really what did it for me. I read the document and I'll be honest, I didn't really hear the dog whistles and I didn't get particularly worked up about

That was really what did it for me. I read the document and I'll be honest, I didn't really hear the dog whistles and I didn't get particularly worked up about it. I thought it kinda read like pseudo-science and that was about it. But then the dude appeared on Mike Cernovich's show and was all over r/the_donald and I was like, "oh this is who this guy is." I hate to judge someone by the company they keep but this guy's company was particularly bad (imo).

r00fus 9y ago
> I hate to judge someone by the company they keep This is literally the way we (as humans) are built to test veracity. Only in a few cases does this litmus test fail. It's a good test, just like "follow the money". It can be abused (joe jobs, false flags), but works a vast majority of the time.
microcolonel 9y ago
> But then the dude appeared on Mike Cernovich's show and was all over r/the_donald and I was like, "oh this is who this guy is." I hate to judge someone by the company they keep but this guy's company was particularly bad (imo). I got the impression that he accepted those interviews because they were the only ones that would be conducted fairly. Especially considering he was subjected to at least one hostile and unfair interview. We can't have a world where you can destroy somebody by endorsing them. This turns every undesirable into a perfect hitman.
- rainbowmverse 9y ago
  >> I got the impression that he accepted those interviews because they were the only ones that would be conducted fairly. An exact opposite bias doesn't cancel out into fairness.
ddlsmurf 9y ago
So guilty by association ? That's healthy... What's truly sad about this is that he is the first I've heard of to propose actually fair measures we could take to promote gender diversity in IT, such as using more socially involved methods such as pair programming. Instead we get positive discrimination. This depiction by tech crunch is an insult to reporting, if you read/listen to the primary source, there is no hate, no sexism, no racism, he just saw unfair stuff and spoke out about it.
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  Yeah, even if you look at the comments here damning Damore, it's obvious most commenters didn't bother to read - hell, to even skim the primary source. The memo was as polite scientificly-backed and clearly written as it was reasonably possible without turning it into an academic publication. The only mistake he made (while at Google; I was really surprised by the on-line crowd that he found itself with after being ejected from his workplace) was not realizing that he's not dealing with a rational audience, in Google or elsewhere.
  - ddlsmurf 9y ago
    I was kind of hoping more of hacker news though =/ This does not bode well...
- dopamean 9y ago
  It's not just "association" as you put it. r/the_donald was singing is his praises. They're a pretty toxic bunch and I've found that I have very little in common with many of them (mostly because I find their views to be <insert any negative adjective>). So when they're the only people I see coming to someone's defense I assume that person said or did something pretty bad. Mike Cernovich is the same way. He's looking to push a narrative to further his own agenda. An agenda and narrative I find gross and offensive. So he thinks Damore fits into that narrative. That is a not so subtle hint to me that Damore is saying something gross and offensive. It's not the best way of judging things for sure but I don't think it served me poorly here.
  - ddlsmurf 9y ago
    You give too much power to these toxic groups, I recommend just ignoring them completely. The alternative is basically giving them the ability to censor what you read, litmus or not, seems unwise. I know nothing of Cernovich sorry. It certainly served you poorly here. His infamous memo is the best, most scientifically literate proposal towards more diversity in IT, its portrayal is truly discouraging.
    - 9y ago
saint_fiasco 9y ago
It's a demerit to him that he accepted their support, but it is also a demerit on the entire rest of society that the only ones who offered him support were the alt-right.
FabHK 9y ago
I'd be interested to know whether more liberal media/shows extended invitations to him (that he declined?), or whether it was only conservative platforms that allowed him to present his case.
- stevenwoo 9y ago
  The Guardian interviewed him. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/nov/16/james-damore-google-memo-interview-autism-regrets https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/nov/16/james-dam... When the memo came out, the Guardian reported that news outlets contacted him and Damore went with anti-feminist youtubers for a more friendly reception. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/aug/09/james-damore-google-memo-youtube-interviews https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/aug/09/james-dam...
  - FabHK 9y ago
    Thanks for the info. > Damore went with anti-feminist youtubers for a more friendly reception Maybe understandable, but disappointing.

r00fus 9y ago

> I hate to judge someone by the company they keep This is literally the way we (as humans) are built to test veracity. Only in a few cases does this litmus test fail. It's a good test, just like "follow the money". It can be abused (joe jobs, false flags), but works a vast majority of the time.

microcolonel 9y ago

> But then the dude appeared on Mike Cernovich's show and was all over r/the_donald and I was like, "oh this is who this guy is." I hate to judge someone by the company they keep but this guy's company was particularly bad (imo). I got the impression that he accepted those interviews because they were the only ones that would be conducted fairly. Especially considering he was subjected to at least one hostile and unfair interview. We can't have a world where you can destroy somebody by endorsing them. This turns every undesirable into a perfect hitman.

rainbowmverse 9y ago
>> I got the impression that he accepted those interviews because they were the only ones that would be conducted fairly. An exact opposite bias doesn't cancel out into fairness.

ddlsmurf 9y ago

So guilty by association ? That's healthy... What's truly sad about this is that he is the first I've heard of to propose actually fair measures we could take to promote gender diversity in IT, such as using more socially involved methods such as pair programming. Instead we get positive discrimination. This depiction by tech crunch is an insult to reporting, if you read/listen to the primary source, there is no hate, no sexism, no racism, he just saw unfair stuff and spoke out about it.

TeMPOraL 9y ago
Yeah, even if you look at the comments here damning Damore, it's obvious most commenters didn't bother to read - hell, to even skim the primary source. The memo was as polite scientificly-backed and clearly written as it was reasonably possible without turning it into an academic publication. The only mistake he made (while at Google; I was really surprised by the on-line crowd that he found itself with after being ejected from his workplace) was not realizing that he's not dealing with a rational audience, in Google or elsewhere.
- ddlsmurf 9y ago
  I was kind of hoping more of hacker news though =/ This does not bode well...
dopamean 9y ago
It's not just "association" as you put it. r/the_donald was singing is his praises. They're a pretty toxic bunch and I've found that I have very little in common with many of them (mostly because I find their views to be <insert any negative adjective>). So when they're the only people I see coming to someone's defense I assume that person said or did something pretty bad. Mike Cernovich is the same way. He's looking to push a narrative to further his own agenda. An agenda and narrative I find gross and offensive. So he thinks Damore fits into that narrative. That is a not so subtle hint to me that Damore is saying something gross and offensive. It's not the best way of judging things for sure but I don't think it served me poorly here.
- ddlsmurf 9y ago
  You give too much power to these toxic groups, I recommend just ignoring them completely. The alternative is basically giving them the ability to censor what you read, litmus or not, seems unwise. I know nothing of Cernovich sorry. It certainly served you poorly here. His infamous memo is the best, most scientifically literate proposal towards more diversity in IT, its portrayal is truly discouraging.
  - 9y ago

saint_fiasco 9y ago

It's a demerit to him that he accepted their support, but it is also a demerit on the entire rest of society that the only ones who offered him support were the alt-right.

FabHK 9y ago

I'd be interested to know whether more liberal media/shows extended invitations to him (that he declined?), or whether it was only conservative platforms that allowed him to present his case.

stevenwoo 9y ago
The Guardian interviewed him. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/nov/16/james-damore-google-memo-interview-autism-regrets https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/nov/16/james-dam... When the memo came out, the Guardian reported that news outlets contacted him and Damore went with anti-feminist youtubers for a more friendly reception. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/aug/09/james-damore-google-memo-youtube-interviews https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/aug/09/james-dam...
- FabHK 9y ago
  Thanks for the info. > Damore went with anti-feminist youtubers for a more friendly reception Maybe understandable, but disappointing.