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After reading the memo and after reading most of the comments here that claim that users also read the memo makes me very afraid on the state of educated people

After reading the memo and after reading most of the comments here that claim that users also read the memo makes me very afraid on the state of educated people in America. I cannot believe that most of you still go with the media narrative that Damore claimed "women are worse than man at engineering" while this is a very obvious misrepresentation of what he wrote in order to fill a narrative. This is all part of a politically driven agenda that destroys everyone trying to question the unique, politically-correct acceptable way of thinking. And it kills me that smart people in HN are falling for it so easily.

BinaryIdiot 9y ago
What? He actually does say that... > I’m simply stating that the distribution of preferences and abilities of men and women differ in part due to biological causes and that these differences may explain why we don’t see equal representation of women in tech and leadership. [...] > This is all part of a politically driven agenda that destroys everyone trying to question the unique, politically-correct acceptable way of thinking. This is nonsensical. He wrote bullshit, he caused a problem at his office of employment, he was fired. End of discussion. If you end up pissing off most of your co-workers it leads to a hostile environment so you remove the fewest amount of people to fix it. It doesn't even matter if what he wrote is or isn't correct at that point.
- ironjunkie 9y ago
  No, he didn't say that. He speaks about the `distribution of preferences and abilities`. Going from a distribution to state that `women are worse then men at engineering` is a false narrative and COMPLETELY different. You probably didn't realize that because you already made your own politically-correct version of the truth on that subject, and refuse any discussion about those topics. For example, what he said doesn't say anything about two specific individual women and men abilities. About your second point. That's the whole issue! Bringing up any point of debate or discussion on those politically-driven topics will end up pissing of some people (while a majority might agree, but will stay silent because politically incorrect). It is very very sad that this is the state of affairs, and that we cannot discuss those sensible subjects anymore without being fully ostracized.
  - samfriedman 9y ago
    I'd say that the very fact that identical quotes from the memo can be used to argue opposite positions in earnest shows - with no judgment for which side is correct - that the memo itself is poorly written.
    - ironjunkie 9y ago
      That's maybe why we should stop focusing on a 10 word quote and maybe read and understand the full memo (which provides context) ?
    - gdix 9y ago
      Every single memo/book/essay has quotes that can be taken out of context in order to criticize the whole. That's why the phrase "taken out of context" exists.
  - lurr 9y ago
    Except his point was indefensible, because it was (at best) poorly written.
    - ironjunkie 9y ago
      we are all arguing about a 10 word quotes because that is what the media have chosen to focus on. If you read the full memo, you understand what he aims at and I don't think it is poorly written.
      - lurr 9y ago
        Gee, for a group that seems to complain about suppression of alternative thoughts you sure you do love to accuse everyone who disagrees with you of not having read the memo.
        scruple 9y ago
        So you've concluded then that ironjunkie is an "alt-right" "member" because of _this_ comment thread? Yikes...
- ghostcluster 9y ago
  And that is what decades of replicated science confirms. Here is a female first authored study from 2013 focused on the topic of Damore's memo exactly. http://atavisionary.com/study-index/intelligence-psychometrics-psychology/sex-differences-on-g-and-non-g-intellectual-performance-reveal-potential-sources-of-stem-discrepancies/ http://atavisionary.com/study-index/intelligence-psychometri... > The findings suggest that the persistent – and usually neglected average large advantage of boys in mechanical reasoning (MR) — orthogonal to g – might be behind their higher presence in STEM (science, technology, engineering, and math) disciplines.
- zeveb 9y ago
  The quoted line about distribution of talent does not imply that women are worse than men at engineering. In fact, due to the way standard deviation works, the average woman could be better than the average man at engineering but the average of the top 5% of women could be worse than the average of the top 5% of men at engineering. Yeah, that sounds weird, but it's completely possible with the right standard deviation and average. Example: average ability score of 100, standard deviation of 16 and average ability score of 90, standard deviation of 32. The 95th percentile cutoff for the first group would be about 164; the 95th percentile cutoff for the second group would be about 218. So even though the average member of group 1 has a higher ability score than the average member of group 2, an organisation which hired the best 5% of all candidates would have disproportionately more members of group 2 than group one.
- rmc 9y ago
  Sounds like he was a bad culture fit.
chourobin 9y ago
I’d like to leave this here: https://daringfireball.net/linked/2017/08/22/damore-jackass https://daringfireball.net/linked/2017/08/22/damore-jackass “Now, unleashed from any pretense of evenhandedness or detachment, we get a succinct summary of his argument: the notion that women should, based on merit and talent, constitute a larger percentage of the tech industry is like believing in Santa Claus. A fantasy. Fuck this guy” Damore is just an asshole. Fuck that guy.

BinaryIdiot 9y ago

What? He actually does say that... > I’m simply stating that the distribution of preferences and abilities of men and women differ in part due to biological causes and that these differences may explain why we don’t see equal representation of women in tech and leadership. [...] > This is all part of a politically driven agenda that destroys everyone trying to question the unique, politically-correct acceptable way of thinking. This is nonsensical. He wrote bullshit, he caused a problem at his office of employment, he was fired. End of discussion. If you end up pissing off most of your co-workers it leads to a hostile environment so you remove the fewest amount of people to fix it. It doesn't even matter if what he wrote is or isn't correct at that point.

ironjunkie 9y ago
No, he didn't say that. He speaks about the `distribution of preferences and abilities`. Going from a distribution to state that `women are worse then men at engineering` is a false narrative and COMPLETELY different. You probably didn't realize that because you already made your own politically-correct version of the truth on that subject, and refuse any discussion about those topics. For example, what he said doesn't say anything about two specific individual women and men abilities. About your second point. That's the whole issue! Bringing up any point of debate or discussion on those politically-driven topics will end up pissing of some people (while a majority might agree, but will stay silent because politically incorrect). It is very very sad that this is the state of affairs, and that we cannot discuss those sensible subjects anymore without being fully ostracized.
- samfriedman 9y ago
  I'd say that the very fact that identical quotes from the memo can be used to argue opposite positions in earnest shows - with no judgment for which side is correct - that the memo itself is poorly written.
  - ironjunkie 9y ago
    That's maybe why we should stop focusing on a 10 word quote and maybe read and understand the full memo (which provides context) ?
  - gdix 9y ago
    Every single memo/book/essay has quotes that can be taken out of context in order to criticize the whole. That's why the phrase "taken out of context" exists.
- lurr 9y ago
  Except his point was indefensible, because it was (at best) poorly written.
  - ironjunkie 9y ago
    we are all arguing about a 10 word quotes because that is what the media have chosen to focus on. If you read the full memo, you understand what he aims at and I don't think it is poorly written.
    - lurr 9y ago
      Gee, for a group that seems to complain about suppression of alternative thoughts you sure you do love to accuse everyone who disagrees with you of not having read the memo.
      - scruple 9y ago
        So you've concluded then that ironjunkie is an "alt-right" "member" because of _this_ comment thread? Yikes...
ghostcluster 9y ago
And that is what decades of replicated science confirms. Here is a female first authored study from 2013 focused on the topic of Damore's memo exactly. http://atavisionary.com/study-index/intelligence-psychometrics-psychology/sex-differences-on-g-and-non-g-intellectual-performance-reveal-potential-sources-of-stem-discrepancies/ http://atavisionary.com/study-index/intelligence-psychometri... > The findings suggest that the persistent – and usually neglected average large advantage of boys in mechanical reasoning (MR) — orthogonal to g – might be behind their higher presence in STEM (science, technology, engineering, and math) disciplines.
zeveb 9y ago
The quoted line about distribution of talent does not imply that women are worse than men at engineering. In fact, due to the way standard deviation works, the average woman could be better than the average man at engineering but the average of the top 5% of women could be worse than the average of the top 5% of men at engineering. Yeah, that sounds weird, but it's completely possible with the right standard deviation and average. Example: average ability score of 100, standard deviation of 16 and average ability score of 90, standard deviation of 32. The 95th percentile cutoff for the first group would be about 164; the 95th percentile cutoff for the second group would be about 218. So even though the average member of group 1 has a higher ability score than the average member of group 2, an organisation which hired the best 5% of all candidates would have disproportionately more members of group 2 than group one.
rmc 9y ago
Sounds like he was a bad culture fit.

chourobin 9y ago

I’d like to leave this here: https://daringfireball.net/linked/2017/08/22/damore-jackass https://daringfireball.net/linked/2017/08/22/damore-jackass “Now, unleashed from any pretense of evenhandedness or detachment, we get a succinct summary of his argument: the notion that women should, based on merit and talent, constitute a larger percentage of the tech industry is like believing in Santa Claus. A fantasy. Fuck this guy” Damore is just an asshole. Fuck that guy.