4 ms·

Yes - at the time Matt graduated, this was still the norm in CS. Things are changing and it's becoming more common to do a post-doc, but it's still not unusual

by dgacmu 9y ago

Yes - at the time Matt graduated, this was still the norm in CS. Things are changing and it's becoming more common to do a post-doc, but it's still not unusual to go directly (in the US).

chrisseaton 9y ago
Where do they go from there if they're already a professor from day one? Is there no promotion? In the UK you won't get to be a professor until your forties, and many people never do.
- sjg007 9y ago
  You start at assistant professor.
  - scott_s 9y ago
    To further clarify: The UK has the distinct titles "reader" and "lecturer" before "professor." In the US, if you have a PhD and you're teaching a college class, you're called a professor, even if you're an adjunct (not tenure track). The tenure track titles are "assistant professor", "associate professor" and then just "professor." Informally, we tend to use "professor" to refer to all of them, and it's common for people to say "Professor Doe" even if the person is an assistant professor.
    - chrisseaton 9y ago
      Oh sorry I did know that I remember now. Here professor is quite a distinguished title, and while it isn't legally protected, I've never seen it used for anyone except a very senior academic who has been formally appointed as a professor.
    - tnecniv 9y ago
      The US still has lecturers (who normally have PhDs), but the title is different from the UK one.
      - scott_s 9y ago
        I have never seen the title "lecturer" used in the US. Can you recall where you saw it? The title "instructor" is quite common when the person does not have a PhD.
        pgbovine 9y ago
        Lecturers are part- or full-time teaching faculty (usually not tenure-track, but some schools like UC's have tenure-track Lecturer tracks) e.g., https://profiles.stanford.edu/48960 https://profiles.stanford.edu/48960
        scott_s 9y ago
        Interesting, it was not a title used in the schools I attended (Virginia Tech, William and Mary) or have I seen it used elsewhere. I just checked Harvard, and they use it, too, so it's not just a west coast thing.
        wl 9y ago
        Lecturer is used at the University of California for instructors with a PhD and no research responsibilities. Some of them even have a form of tenure, "security of employment."
        schoen 9y ago
        A prominent example in computer science was Brian Harvey https://people.eecs.berkeley.edu/~bh/ https://people.eecs.berkeley.edu/~bh/ who designed and then taught the introductory computer science course (CS 61A) for many years and is now retired.
        rifung 9y ago
        I believe lecturer is used even if they don't have PhDs. At least this was the case at UCSD where we had several.
        erikpukinskis 9y ago
        https://www.indeed.com/m/viewjob?jk=69c67db832c84ca4&from=serp https://www.indeed.com/m/viewjob?jk=69c67db832c84ca4&from=se...
    - pgbovine 9y ago
      yep, this is often confusing for folks coming in from other countries: http://pgbovine.net/professor-job-titles.htm http://pgbovine.net/professor-job-titles.htm
- _raoulcousins 9y ago
  Tenure track assistant professor for sixish years, associate professor, (regular) professor, [superlative] professor
- bachmeier 9y ago
  In the US the important form of "promotion" is in the form of salary. Titles are nice and probably provide some motivation, but if you can become a chaired professor at a top university, you will bring in a salary several times that of a new hire.
- pgbovine 9y ago
  see here for US-oriented details: http://pgbovine.net/professor-job-titles.htm http://pgbovine.net/professor-job-titles.htm
acbart 9y ago
I was going to write that I disagree with you, but according to the Taulbee survey this is true: The percentage of Ph.D. graduates who took North American academic jobs rose in 2015-16 for the second straight year, to 30.7 from 29.0 last year. However, the percentage of graduates taking tenure-track positions in North American doctoral-granting computing departments fell from to 10.0 in 2014-15 to 9.0 in 2015-16. The percentage taking positions in North American non-Ph.D.-granting computing departments fell from 2.3 percent to 1.6 percent, while the percentage taking North American academic postdoctoral positions jumped from 9.7 percent to 14.3 percent.[1] [1] https://cra.org/crn/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2017/05/2016-Taulbee-Survey.pdf https://cra.org/crn/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2017/05/2016-...

by dgacmu 9y ago

Yes - at the time Matt graduated, this was still the norm in CS. Things are changing and it's becoming more common to do a post-doc, but it's still not unusual to go directly (in the US).

chrisseaton 9y ago

Where do they go from there if they're already a professor from day one? Is there no promotion? In the UK you won't get to be a professor until your forties, and many people never do.

sjg007 9y ago
You start at assistant professor.
- scott_s 9y ago
  To further clarify: The UK has the distinct titles "reader" and "lecturer" before "professor." In the US, if you have a PhD and you're teaching a college class, you're called a professor, even if you're an adjunct (not tenure track). The tenure track titles are "assistant professor", "associate professor" and then just "professor." Informally, we tend to use "professor" to refer to all of them, and it's common for people to say "Professor Doe" even if the person is an assistant professor.
  - chrisseaton 9y ago
    Oh sorry I did know that I remember now. Here professor is quite a distinguished title, and while it isn't legally protected, I've never seen it used for anyone except a very senior academic who has been formally appointed as a professor.
  - tnecniv 9y ago
    The US still has lecturers (who normally have PhDs), but the title is different from the UK one.
    - scott_s 9y ago
      I have never seen the title "lecturer" used in the US. Can you recall where you saw it? The title "instructor" is quite common when the person does not have a PhD.
      - pgbovine 9y ago
        Lecturers are part- or full-time teaching faculty (usually not tenure-track, but some schools like UC's have tenure-track Lecturer tracks) e.g., https://profiles.stanford.edu/48960 https://profiles.stanford.edu/48960
        scott_s 9y ago
        Interesting, it was not a title used in the schools I attended (Virginia Tech, William and Mary) or have I seen it used elsewhere. I just checked Harvard, and they use it, too, so it's not just a west coast thing.
      - wl 9y ago
        Lecturer is used at the University of California for instructors with a PhD and no research responsibilities. Some of them even have a form of tenure, "security of employment."
        schoen 9y ago
        A prominent example in computer science was Brian Harvey https://people.eecs.berkeley.edu/~bh/ https://people.eecs.berkeley.edu/~bh/ who designed and then taught the introductory computer science course (CS 61A) for many years and is now retired.
        rifung 9y ago
        I believe lecturer is used even if they don't have PhDs. At least this was the case at UCSD where we had several.
      - erikpukinskis 9y ago
        https://www.indeed.com/m/viewjob?jk=69c67db832c84ca4&from=serp https://www.indeed.com/m/viewjob?jk=69c67db832c84ca4&from=se...
  - pgbovine 9y ago
    yep, this is often confusing for folks coming in from other countries: http://pgbovine.net/professor-job-titles.htm http://pgbovine.net/professor-job-titles.htm
_raoulcousins 9y ago
Tenure track assistant professor for sixish years, associate professor, (regular) professor, [superlative] professor
bachmeier 9y ago
In the US the important form of "promotion" is in the form of salary. Titles are nice and probably provide some motivation, but if you can become a chaired professor at a top university, you will bring in a salary several times that of a new hire.
pgbovine 9y ago
see here for US-oriented details: http://pgbovine.net/professor-job-titles.htm http://pgbovine.net/professor-job-titles.htm

acbart 9y ago

I was going to write that I disagree with you, but according to the Taulbee survey this is true: The percentage of Ph.D. graduates who took North American academic jobs rose in 2015-16 for the second straight year, to 30.7 from 29.0 last year. However, the percentage of graduates taking tenure-track positions in North American doctoral-granting computing departments fell from to 10.0 in 2014-15 to 9.0 in 2015-16. The percentage taking positions in North American non-Ph.D.-granting computing departments fell from 2.3 percent to 1.6 percent, while the percentage taking North American academic postdoctoral positions jumped from 9.7 percent to 14.3 percent.[1] [1] https://cra.org/crn/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2017/05/2016-Taulbee-Survey.pdf https://cra.org/crn/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2017/05/2016-...