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Those cheap chinese knock offs are made with cheap components and I have no doubts that the factory conditions are terrible. I wouldn't be suprised if the suppl

by simook 9y ago

Those cheap chinese knock offs are made with cheap components and I have no doubts that the factory conditions are terrible. I wouldn't be suprised if the supply chain for these cheap cameras will be shutdown with China finally being serious about pollution.

nolok 9y ago
I don't disagree about the conditions, but if that doesn't stop people from buying their 15 bucks t-shirt or their overpriced Nike, it's not going to stop them with their cameras
- simook 9y ago
  True, but I still bring it up because it's a conversation worth having. And if one more person starts to realize the harm in buying cheap goods from China, hopefully we will eventually change this trend. I for one try to only buy goods that are made locally to me. Sure, it will cost more but I look at it as an investment.
  - icelancer 9y ago
    >>And if one more person starts to realize the harm in buying cheap goods from China, hopefully we will eventually change this trend. Textiles and clothing are already starting to be made in India, Bangladesh, and Vietnam because Chinese factories are too expensive for simple manufacturing. Globalism ensures that "harm" will be exported from rich countries to the poor ones. The economic incentives are extremely powerful, and a handful of well-meaning people won't fix that. What happened in China - and is currently happening - is that their industrial revolution occurred and they are now making increasingly better products with an increasingly more educated and skilled workforce, no different than what happened in the United States. As prices of labor and factories go up, the low-hanging fruit is exported elsewhere. Check your - or your friend's, since you try not to buy clothing like this - Nike shirts and see where they are made. Anything new is likely not to be made in China. The cycle continues.
DanBC 9y ago
> and I have no doubts that the factory conditions are terrible But that's true for expensive cameras too.
- simook 9y ago
  Very well could be. But it's certain that any cheaply made item is going to have poor working conditions, poor quality of life, and poor return on investment. I think we need to define what I mean by "expensive" because, for example, an iPhone can be thought of as expensive purchase but I honestly think it is too cheap. What I mean is that we need to evaluate the total cost of ownership. "Is this item that I'm buying made in a way that benefits humanity?" For example, the LED light bulb market had such promise but now is flooded with cheaply made bulbs that are made with components that will fail before they should. The pollution cost to mine all the rare earth materials that go into these light bulbs are not reflected in their final cost, and in my opinion, they should be.
  - icelancer 9y ago
    What is "cheaply made item?" The items I have made in China are superior in quality and the customer service I get is better than American factories by a huge amount. All Chinese factories due is pick up the margin that American companies try to live off of (and yes, this includes costs of labor); this does not mean or guarantee that there is poor return on investment. Your theories are not very well-founded, and frankly, pretty racist. The idea that a bunch of engineers in China can't make equivalent - or better - products than those in the United States is ridiculous and shown to be false by everyday life in the devices we use. >>The pollution cost to mine all the rare earth materials that go into these light bulbs are not reflected in their final cost, and in my opinion, they should be. This is a separate issue from the second sentence you posted. Maybe you are right. But almost no politician is interested in discussing these issues. Ironically enough, the most vocal supporter you have on this issue is Donald Trump.
cosmie 9y ago
In some cases, I’ve gotten products off AliExpress that were made far more robustly internally than the name-brand product they were imitating (not direct knockoffs pretending to be authentic, just obvious imitations). The economics of buying from AliExpress/Alibaba can work out slightly differently than buying from a Western company that’s sourcing from China. Cutting out the middleman allows them to sell it at a price that I find cheap while they’re still able to capture far more profit than from a wholesale purchase. Potentially improving conditions vs if you bought the non-knock off. Not to say that happens in every case. Nor as a broad comment on the conditions of factory work in China. But food for thought on the benefit of buying directly from Chinese companies.
- double0jimb0 9y ago
  What happens when there is no upside for the original creators/designers/inventors? Who designs the next best thing?
mikestew 9y ago
Those cheap chinese knock offs are made with cheap components I would have to dig deep into my prior comments to find the source, but it was in response to my comment that GoPros don't seem to be a better user experience than the "cheap Chinese knock-offs" (direct quote). Then someone came along with a link pointing out that a GoPro is the cheap Chinese knock-off. They just silk screen their name on it. EDIT: Found the original, no link, but should be easy to confirm: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12869304 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12869304 Thanks, DDG!
icelancer 9y ago
"Those cheap chinese knockoffs" are the same parts as the GoPro, made in the same factories. Just buy the cameras and compare them and you'll see this is obvious. As for your prediction of shutdowns and seriousness of pollution, well, that remains to be seen. As someone who does import/export of goods in Chinese factories... I have my doubts.

by simook 9y ago

nolok 9y ago

I don't disagree about the conditions, but if that doesn't stop people from buying their 15 bucks t-shirt or their overpriced Nike, it's not going to stop them with their cameras

simook 9y ago
True, but I still bring it up because it's a conversation worth having. And if one more person starts to realize the harm in buying cheap goods from China, hopefully we will eventually change this trend. I for one try to only buy goods that are made locally to me. Sure, it will cost more but I look at it as an investment.
- icelancer 9y ago
  >>And if one more person starts to realize the harm in buying cheap goods from China, hopefully we will eventually change this trend. Textiles and clothing are already starting to be made in India, Bangladesh, and Vietnam because Chinese factories are too expensive for simple manufacturing. Globalism ensures that "harm" will be exported from rich countries to the poor ones. The economic incentives are extremely powerful, and a handful of well-meaning people won't fix that. What happened in China - and is currently happening - is that their industrial revolution occurred and they are now making increasingly better products with an increasingly more educated and skilled workforce, no different than what happened in the United States. As prices of labor and factories go up, the low-hanging fruit is exported elsewhere. Check your - or your friend's, since you try not to buy clothing like this - Nike shirts and see where they are made. Anything new is likely not to be made in China. The cycle continues.

DanBC 9y ago

> and I have no doubts that the factory conditions are terrible But that's true for expensive cameras too.

simook 9y ago
Very well could be. But it's certain that any cheaply made item is going to have poor working conditions, poor quality of life, and poor return on investment. I think we need to define what I mean by "expensive" because, for example, an iPhone can be thought of as expensive purchase but I honestly think it is too cheap. What I mean is that we need to evaluate the total cost of ownership. "Is this item that I'm buying made in a way that benefits humanity?" For example, the LED light bulb market had such promise but now is flooded with cheaply made bulbs that are made with components that will fail before they should. The pollution cost to mine all the rare earth materials that go into these light bulbs are not reflected in their final cost, and in my opinion, they should be.
- icelancer 9y ago
  What is "cheaply made item?" The items I have made in China are superior in quality and the customer service I get is better than American factories by a huge amount. All Chinese factories due is pick up the margin that American companies try to live off of (and yes, this includes costs of labor); this does not mean or guarantee that there is poor return on investment. Your theories are not very well-founded, and frankly, pretty racist. The idea that a bunch of engineers in China can't make equivalent - or better - products than those in the United States is ridiculous and shown to be false by everyday life in the devices we use. >>The pollution cost to mine all the rare earth materials that go into these light bulbs are not reflected in their final cost, and in my opinion, they should be. This is a separate issue from the second sentence you posted. Maybe you are right. But almost no politician is interested in discussing these issues. Ironically enough, the most vocal supporter you have on this issue is Donald Trump.

cosmie 9y ago

In some cases, I’ve gotten products off AliExpress that were made far more robustly internally than the name-brand product they were imitating (not direct knockoffs pretending to be authentic, just obvious imitations). The economics of buying from AliExpress/Alibaba can work out slightly differently than buying from a Western company that’s sourcing from China. Cutting out the middleman allows them to sell it at a price that I find cheap while they’re still able to capture far more profit than from a wholesale purchase. Potentially improving conditions vs if you bought the non-knock off. Not to say that happens in every case. Nor as a broad comment on the conditions of factory work in China. But food for thought on the benefit of buying directly from Chinese companies.

double0jimb0 9y ago
What happens when there is no upside for the original creators/designers/inventors? Who designs the next best thing?

mikestew 9y ago

Those cheap chinese knock offs are made with cheap components I would have to dig deep into my prior comments to find the source, but it was in response to my comment that GoPros don't seem to be a better user experience than the "cheap Chinese knock-offs" (direct quote). Then someone came along with a link pointing out that a GoPro is the cheap Chinese knock-off. They just silk screen their name on it. EDIT: Found the original, no link, but should be easy to confirm: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12869304 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12869304 Thanks, DDG!

icelancer 9y ago

"Those cheap chinese knockoffs" are the same parts as the GoPro, made in the same factories. Just buy the cameras and compare them and you'll see this is obvious. As for your prediction of shutdowns and seriousness of pollution, well, that remains to be seen. As someone who does import/export of goods in Chinese factories... I have my doubts.