4 ms·

> When it finally re-opened it was 8 months behind schedule, having been closed for more than a year and a half. If time stopped in the tunnel, wouldn't the re

by gvb 9y ago

> When it finally re-opened it was 8 months behind schedule, having been closed for more than a year and a half. If time stopped in the tunnel, wouldn't the repairs have been completed remarkably ahead of schedule from the perspective outside the tunnel? After all, the workers would put in a full day of repairs in no (outside) time at all.

piqufoh 9y ago
Ah, but if you work a whole 'tunnel' day every day, you still work the same number of days - you just have extra spare time each day (?!). I expect the delay in re-opening is partially due to confusing scheduling ... ahem
albertgoeswoof 9y ago
I suspect that in this peculiar case, as soon as a worker goes up and exits the tunnel to report completion of his/her workload, the repairs are in fact already behind schedule. To the foreman on the surface it's quite obvious that only a few moments have passed so how could he possibly have completed the repairs in such a timeframe. Instead the worker is merely wasting time ascending and descending into the tunnel, falling further behind schedule. So the foreman goes down to check the progress of works and of course finds them complete, because the workers have been working hard for days and days in the tunnel. And upon exiting the tunnel the foreman checks the plans and finds once again that the project is falling further behind schedule. And the workers are beyond tired from continuously ascending and descending into the tunnel all day and night, so of course the tunnel repairs fall further behind schedule. A more probable explanation might be obtained by searching for a carbon monoxide leak or other poison-induced mind altered state of working in the tunnel. Of course once you return to the surface from investigating the results taken will be invalid as you've only been gone a moment so how could that reading possibly have been accurate.
4ndr3vv 9y ago
Two points: 1) Much of the repairs were done to the lift shafts, which judging from the story seems outside the time anomalies zone of influence. 2) If a worker in the tunnel completed a day's work instantly, the worker would have still completed a days work and would need to go home and rest. You could, in theory, have a rolling start time, so the worker has 15 hours rest and then is required to come into work again. Unfortunately, legislation doesn't really account for time anomalies and so this would likely fall foul of Union and EU standards.
- fragmede 9y ago
  Hire different/more workers? Setting aside the implausibility of such a secret remaining a secret (none of the workers had a boffin brother or cousin to show?), and never mind the implications for physics, with the right incentives, foreman could hire additional workers, finish the job faster, get paid for that job, and move onto the next job while looking like they're exceptionally good at things rather than ending up over-budget and behind schedule, as is expected for publics works projects. And all without coming up against per-worker Union/EU standards.
  - Bartweiss 9y ago
    I suppose we have two hurdles. One is getting the outside-tunnel work done - redoing the lifts, trucking in more tiles, and so on. That's happening at real-world time, so it's going to be a bottleneck. The other is getting approval for what looks like a blatantly dishonest hiring scheme. Sure, the foreman knows he can get 80 hours of work done in that tunnel every day, but a request to hire that much staff looks like pure make-work from the outside.
- Bartweiss 9y ago
  The story does point out that they were doing a "full day of work", then going home even if it was still morning. So there doesn't seem to have been any personal benefit from the time dilation - the crew still put in 8 hours of work per person per day. Sending a guy across the tunnel to deliver some tool still costs the same amount of his workday, but it'd be instant for the people on the outside, which would save a bit of time. On the other hand dealing with the weirdness and scheduling around it might well eat up any time gained. Now if they'd convinced the head office about the weirdness, I suppose they could have dispatched another dozen crews and gotten 80 hours of work done each day - at least in the tunnel.
tallanvor 9y ago
Fictional stories don't have to make sense, though.
- cesarb 9y ago
  Yes, they have to. Otherwise they strain the suspension of disbelief too much, and the reader can't enjoy the work.
  - Filligree 9y ago
    Well, think about it this way: The anomaly made work progress much faster than normal, and it still finished a year too late. What does that say about public works in general?
  - optimuspaul 9y ago
    Nah, Absurdist writing can still be enjoyable.
    - baldfat 9y ago
      Well Dr. Who and Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy are absurd but fun. Lost and Heroes both past season 2 are painful.
      - KirinDave 9y ago
        Season 1 of Heroes was pretty dang solid for a TV drama with time travel though.
      - andybak 9y ago
        Lost was good for much longer than that. I'd maintain that it still contained good elements right up until fairly near the end. On a small scale the writing and acting was still good. What got worse was the larger scale structures that were meant to keep your interest over a long period of time. A story made up from fragments that never form a greater whole is usually unsatisfying no matter how good the fragments are. (Exceptions to this rule can be found - an exercise I leave up to the reader)
christoph 9y ago
> Mention the 18 month time frame to someone who worked on the Woolwich Tunnel job and you may be met with a mysterious smile. > Biggest problem was making sure that if anyone from head office came down it wouldn’t look like he was sending people home ten minutes after they logged on It's a fun story, but my overly cynical mind would suspect that there was probably some timesheet gaming going on somewhere here with agency workers. It would explain why the project went on a lot longer than it should have as well.

by gvb 9y ago

piqufoh 9y ago

Ah, but if you work a whole 'tunnel' day every day, you still work the same number of days - you just have extra spare time each day (?!). I expect the delay in re-opening is partially due to confusing scheduling ... ahem

albertgoeswoof 9y ago

I suspect that in this peculiar case, as soon as a worker goes up and exits the tunnel to report completion of his/her workload, the repairs are in fact already behind schedule. To the foreman on the surface it's quite obvious that only a few moments have passed so how could he possibly have completed the repairs in such a timeframe. Instead the worker is merely wasting time ascending and descending into the tunnel, falling further behind schedule. So the foreman goes down to check the progress of works and of course finds them complete, because the workers have been working hard for days and days in the tunnel. And upon exiting the tunnel the foreman checks the plans and finds once again that the project is falling further behind schedule. And the workers are beyond tired from continuously ascending and descending into the tunnel all day and night, so of course the tunnel repairs fall further behind schedule. A more probable explanation might be obtained by searching for a carbon monoxide leak or other poison-induced mind altered state of working in the tunnel. Of course once you return to the surface from investigating the results taken will be invalid as you've only been gone a moment so how could that reading possibly have been accurate.

4ndr3vv 9y ago

Two points: 1) Much of the repairs were done to the lift shafts, which judging from the story seems outside the time anomalies zone of influence. 2) If a worker in the tunnel completed a day's work instantly, the worker would have still completed a days work and would need to go home and rest. You could, in theory, have a rolling start time, so the worker has 15 hours rest and then is required to come into work again. Unfortunately, legislation doesn't really account for time anomalies and so this would likely fall foul of Union and EU standards.

fragmede 9y ago
Hire different/more workers? Setting aside the implausibility of such a secret remaining a secret (none of the workers had a boffin brother or cousin to show?), and never mind the implications for physics, with the right incentives, foreman could hire additional workers, finish the job faster, get paid for that job, and move onto the next job while looking like they're exceptionally good at things rather than ending up over-budget and behind schedule, as is expected for publics works projects. And all without coming up against per-worker Union/EU standards.
- Bartweiss 9y ago
  I suppose we have two hurdles. One is getting the outside-tunnel work done - redoing the lifts, trucking in more tiles, and so on. That's happening at real-world time, so it's going to be a bottleneck. The other is getting approval for what looks like a blatantly dishonest hiring scheme. Sure, the foreman knows he can get 80 hours of work done in that tunnel every day, but a request to hire that much staff looks like pure make-work from the outside.
Bartweiss 9y ago
The story does point out that they were doing a "full day of work", then going home even if it was still morning. So there doesn't seem to have been any personal benefit from the time dilation - the crew still put in 8 hours of work per person per day. Sending a guy across the tunnel to deliver some tool still costs the same amount of his workday, but it'd be instant for the people on the outside, which would save a bit of time. On the other hand dealing with the weirdness and scheduling around it might well eat up any time gained. Now if they'd convinced the head office about the weirdness, I suppose they could have dispatched another dozen crews and gotten 80 hours of work done each day - at least in the tunnel.

tallanvor 9y ago

Fictional stories don't have to make sense, though.

cesarb 9y ago
Yes, they have to. Otherwise they strain the suspension of disbelief too much, and the reader can't enjoy the work.
- Filligree 9y ago
  Well, think about it this way: The anomaly made work progress much faster than normal, and it still finished a year too late. What does that say about public works in general?
- optimuspaul 9y ago
  Nah, Absurdist writing can still be enjoyable.
  - baldfat 9y ago
    Well Dr. Who and Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy are absurd but fun. Lost and Heroes both past season 2 are painful.
    - KirinDave 9y ago
      Season 1 of Heroes was pretty dang solid for a TV drama with time travel though.
    - andybak 9y ago
      Lost was good for much longer than that. I'd maintain that it still contained good elements right up until fairly near the end. On a small scale the writing and acting was still good. What got worse was the larger scale structures that were meant to keep your interest over a long period of time. A story made up from fragments that never form a greater whole is usually unsatisfying no matter how good the fragments are. (Exceptions to this rule can be found - an exercise I leave up to the reader)

christoph 9y ago

> Mention the 18 month time frame to someone who worked on the Woolwich Tunnel job and you may be met with a mysterious smile. > Biggest problem was making sure that if anyone from head office came down it wouldn’t look like he was sending people home ten minutes after they logged on It's a fun story, but my overly cynical mind would suspect that there was probably some timesheet gaming going on somewhere here with agency workers. It would explain why the project went on a lot longer than it should have as well.