5 ms·

Do you have a source for smartphone usage having any impact on neck or muscle strain, versus non-smartphone usage, and why it would disproportionately affect mi

Do you have a source for smartphone usage having any impact on neck or muscle strain, versus non-smartphone usage, and why it would disproportionately affect millennials?

pmarreck 9y ago
Why is this guy getting downvoted simply for asking for evidence? This is Hacker News. Raise the bar, people. Leave the baseless assertions and hearsay to Reddit. I expect citations in discussions here. In fact I just scrolled through this entire discussion and did not find A SINGLE LINK to outside evidence/data. How do you expect to debate anything with any validity, based on nothing but bullshit?
- le-mark 9y ago
  I didn't down vote, but I took the gp to be an expression of opinion rather than a statement of fact, and neck pain from phone use being something I can relate to. Merely asking for sources can be distracting when discussing opinions. I think a more cogent response would be "How is smart phone use different than reading a paper or having ones nose buried in a book?" which of course isn't new, but the same physical movement.
  - pmarreck 9y ago
    Well at least you're making a rational argument!
    - le-mark 9y ago
      Indeed, intelligent people can debate in good faith[1], without battering one another with sources. Since a source (or out of context snippet) can be found to support nearly any assertion, sources are not the end all. Often times, source ladden arguments devolve to a debate of source validity and authoritativeness. Which to me, is boring. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity
      - pmarreck 9y ago
        I suppose there should be a balance of source-citation, with sources preferred which establish a broadly-accepted concordance (such as a meta-study of studies) instead of a single study (in which case you would be correct). To me, rational arguments are the leaps between facts established by evidence, so both are necessary to some degree. In online conversations devoid of any citation, things seem to far too often veer into wild speculation, unsubstantiated opinion/belief, and most egregious, ad hominem/stereotyping/etc. I was unaware of the Principle of Charity, thanks for educating me!
jmngomes 9y ago
There are widely available sources and studies on the subject of how bad posture is destructive to the human skeleton...
- pmarreck 9y ago
  ... And yet you took the opportunity to cite none of it. I know about the studies of sitting for long periods...
  - jmngomes 9y ago
    I didn't cite any because - correct me if I'm wrong - the issue of how bad posture affects the human skeleton is a solved problem, i.e. it's basic common knowledge that can easily be found online or discussed with a medical doctor. I don't think it's necessary to go all the way and research citations to disprove claims that are just challenging basic common sense without any argument in their support, e.g. I don't really go to great lengths to use data to disprove claims related to astrology.
double0jimb0 9y ago
That is an easy one to answer: baby boomers, gen-x, and anyone over ~33 years old as of now... they didn't have cell phones or tablets growing up. But I think what you are getting at is you want data supporting the emergence of a correlation in this new, younger cohort. I'd argue that a close proxy is the introduction of the PC workstation in the 70's and 80's and the "ergonomics" industry that resulted. Seems pretty easy to assume the same dynamics are at play again. "The result of this study showed that prolonged use of smartphones could negatively affect both, posture and respiratory function." [0] There is negative financial incentive for the device producers (Apple, Samsung, Microsoft, etc) if it is discovered that their products are harmful to consumer health. [1] As for data confirming emergence of harm caused by smartphone/tablet, it is a easy google search to see professionals at top research universities and hospitals provide anecdotal evidence that there is a correlation. [2][3] From personal experience, a talk with a professional in Physical Therapy or Occupation Therapy will yield their first hand experience with the identification of cell phone/tablet (and laptop) use as the source of the physical stressor, and the subsequent mitigation (through behavioral (use it less) and environmental (use ergonomically) change) as its cure. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4756000/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4756000/ [1] http://www.crn.com/news/mobility/300089826/apple-ceo-tim-cook-said-ipad-sales-are-surging-in-education-mac-sales-are-up-7-percent.htm http://www.crn.com/news/mobility/300089826/apple-ceo-tim-coo... [2] https://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/pain/articles/2009/10/17/video-games-can-play-havoc-with-kids-joints https://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/pain/art... [3] https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=is+smartphone+bad+for+kids+posture&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=is+smar... *edited for more linkz
- noobermin 9y ago
  Dear God, that [0] link is horrendous. I might be biased because I come from a harder science, but every metric they measure overlap in the stddev within the control and the test group. The best is peak expiratory flow (ie., peak breath flow), but even those overlap from the min of one to the max of the other. I probably doesn't help that there are 25 subjects per group.

Do you have a source for smartphone usage having any impact on neck or muscle strain, versus non-smartphone usage, and why it would disproportionately affect millennials?

pmarreck 9y ago

Why is this guy getting downvoted simply for asking for evidence? This is Hacker News. Raise the bar, people. Leave the baseless assertions and hearsay to Reddit. I expect citations in discussions here. In fact I just scrolled through this entire discussion and did not find A SINGLE LINK to outside evidence/data. How do you expect to debate anything with any validity, based on nothing but bullshit?

le-mark 9y ago
I didn't down vote, but I took the gp to be an expression of opinion rather than a statement of fact, and neck pain from phone use being something I can relate to. Merely asking for sources can be distracting when discussing opinions. I think a more cogent response would be "How is smart phone use different than reading a paper or having ones nose buried in a book?" which of course isn't new, but the same physical movement.
- pmarreck 9y ago
  Well at least you're making a rational argument!
  - le-mark 9y ago
    Indeed, intelligent people can debate in good faith[1], without battering one another with sources. Since a source (or out of context snippet) can be found to support nearly any assertion, sources are not the end all. Often times, source ladden arguments devolve to a debate of source validity and authoritativeness. Which to me, is boring. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity
    - pmarreck 9y ago
      I suppose there should be a balance of source-citation, with sources preferred which establish a broadly-accepted concordance (such as a meta-study of studies) instead of a single study (in which case you would be correct). To me, rational arguments are the leaps between facts established by evidence, so both are necessary to some degree. In online conversations devoid of any citation, things seem to far too often veer into wild speculation, unsubstantiated opinion/belief, and most egregious, ad hominem/stereotyping/etc. I was unaware of the Principle of Charity, thanks for educating me!

jmngomes 9y ago

There are widely available sources and studies on the subject of how bad posture is destructive to the human skeleton...

pmarreck 9y ago
... And yet you took the opportunity to cite none of it. I know about the studies of sitting for long periods...
- jmngomes 9y ago
  I didn't cite any because - correct me if I'm wrong - the issue of how bad posture affects the human skeleton is a solved problem, i.e. it's basic common knowledge that can easily be found online or discussed with a medical doctor. I don't think it's necessary to go all the way and research citations to disprove claims that are just challenging basic common sense without any argument in their support, e.g. I don't really go to great lengths to use data to disprove claims related to astrology.

double0jimb0 9y ago

That is an easy one to answer: baby boomers, gen-x, and anyone over ~33 years old as of now... they didn't have cell phones or tablets growing up. But I think what you are getting at is you want data supporting the emergence of a correlation in this new, younger cohort. I'd argue that a close proxy is the introduction of the PC workstation in the 70's and 80's and the "ergonomics" industry that resulted. Seems pretty easy to assume the same dynamics are at play again. "The result of this study showed that prolonged use of smartphones could negatively affect both, posture and respiratory function." [0] There is negative financial incentive for the device producers (Apple, Samsung, Microsoft, etc) if it is discovered that their products are harmful to consumer health. [1] As for data confirming emergence of harm caused by smartphone/tablet, it is a easy google search to see professionals at top research universities and hospitals provide anecdotal evidence that there is a correlation. [2][3] From personal experience, a talk with a professional in Physical Therapy or Occupation Therapy will yield their first hand experience with the identification of cell phone/tablet (and laptop) use as the source of the physical stressor, and the subsequent mitigation (through behavioral (use it less) and environmental (use ergonomically) change) as its cure. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4756000/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4756000/ [1] http://www.crn.com/news/mobility/300089826/apple-ceo-tim-cook-said-ipad-sales-are-surging-in-education-mac-sales-are-up-7-percent.htm http://www.crn.com/news/mobility/300089826/apple-ceo-tim-coo... [2] https://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/pain/articles/2009/10/17/video-games-can-play-havoc-with-kids-joints https://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/pain/art... [3] https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=is+smartphone+bad+for+kids+posture&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=is+smar... *edited for more linkz

noobermin 9y ago
Dear God, that [0] link is horrendous. I might be biased because I come from a harder science, but every metric they measure overlap in the stddev within the control and the test group. The best is peak expiratory flow (ie., peak breath flow), but even those overlap from the min of one to the max of the other. I probably doesn't help that there are 25 subjects per group.