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I can choose to leave my phone, or buy a wifi only device, or take the cell modem out. I can't choose not to be tracked by computers and cameras I don't own, g

I can choose to leave my phone, or buy a wifi only device, or take the cell modem out. I can't choose not to be tracked by computers and cameras I don't own, generally. Therefore, the Chinese system is greatly more nefarious since there is no opt-out.

123ol12313 9y ago
Although, I agree with you in principle. In reality it is a little different. Just because you don't take your phone out doesn't mean other people aren't. Its the same principle as Facebook being able to figure out who your relatives are even though you may not be on Facebook. Its all about data points. With enough data points, it doesn't matter whether you bring out a phone or not.
lloeki 9y ago
You can choose to live in remote areas by the countryside where there are no cameras.
- digi_owl 9y ago
  And thus bump yourself way up the list of possible "troublemakers"...
  - sangnoir 9y ago
    The very same sort whose phones go offline from time to time (unreachable baseband or no discernible motion for long stretches). What are they hiding? It might be better to put them on a list and cross-reference the dark periods with others with similar questionable behavior. Naturally,it's all done by a computer, and it doesn't count until a human analyst looks at the data so no laws are being currently broken.
dis-sys 9y ago
1. you can choose to stay in your private home not fitted with those cameras. 2. you can choose to wear a mask when walking on streets, there is no law stopping you doing that, going to a bank or metro station is a different story. 3. you can choose to live in remote areas. 4. as a foreigner, you can choose not to visit China. 5. as a Chinese citizen, one can choose to leave China and live in countries without such "problem".
- PostOnce 9y ago
  most Chinese people are too poor to leave. Masks I imagine would be outlawed as soon as they became a common method of subverting the state. that, and sesame credit, and the great firewall blocking whole wide avenues of thought, the abuses will pile up as high as the mountains
- zaroth 9y ago
  Yes you can opt-out of anything technically. Both are fairly large sacrifices in the end.
YeGoblynQueenne 9y ago
>> I can choose to leave my phone, or buy a wifi only device, or take the cell modem out. And you can choose to hide in a hole, or go live on a deserted island. In short, you'd have to seriously inconvenience yourself to avoid being spied on all the time. The reason such surveillance is a problem is that it gets the majority of the population by placing itself smack in the middle of their everyday activities. If it was easy to avoid it, or if it was targeted at uncommon activities nobody 'd be worried about it.
jason_slack 9y ago
>> I can choose to leave my phone, or buy a wifi only device, or take the cell modem out. In some countries perhaps. In China, you need your phone for everything. Paying for stuff, getting a taxi, food, etc. Everything tied to a phone.
- iforgotpassword 9y ago
  Optionally, so no. Cash exists, even in China. The surveillance cameras everywhere are much harder to avoid.
  - jason_slack 9y ago
    It is not so optional though. Living in China without a phone is very hard to do. Having spent time there just a few months ago many places wouldn't take cash and even did not have enough cash to make change. The cameras I think are impossible to avoid. I read an article recently where the police found a man within 7 minutes or something using the cctv system.
    - d21d3q 9y ago
      How about wearing Sombrero?

123ol12313 9y ago

Although, I agree with you in principle. In reality it is a little different. Just because you don't take your phone out doesn't mean other people aren't. Its the same principle as Facebook being able to figure out who your relatives are even though you may not be on Facebook. Its all about data points. With enough data points, it doesn't matter whether you bring out a phone or not.

lloeki 9y ago

You can choose to live in remote areas by the countryside where there are no cameras.

digi_owl 9y ago
And thus bump yourself way up the list of possible "troublemakers"...
- sangnoir 9y ago
  The very same sort whose phones go offline from time to time (unreachable baseband or no discernible motion for long stretches). What are they hiding? It might be better to put them on a list and cross-reference the dark periods with others with similar questionable behavior. Naturally,it's all done by a computer, and it doesn't count until a human analyst looks at the data so no laws are being currently broken.

dis-sys 9y ago

1. you can choose to stay in your private home not fitted with those cameras. 2. you can choose to wear a mask when walking on streets, there is no law stopping you doing that, going to a bank or metro station is a different story. 3. you can choose to live in remote areas. 4. as a foreigner, you can choose not to visit China. 5. as a Chinese citizen, one can choose to leave China and live in countries without such "problem".

PostOnce 9y ago
most Chinese people are too poor to leave. Masks I imagine would be outlawed as soon as they became a common method of subverting the state. that, and sesame credit, and the great firewall blocking whole wide avenues of thought, the abuses will pile up as high as the mountains
zaroth 9y ago
Yes you can opt-out of anything technically. Both are fairly large sacrifices in the end.

YeGoblynQueenne 9y ago

>> I can choose to leave my phone, or buy a wifi only device, or take the cell modem out. And you can choose to hide in a hole, or go live on a deserted island. In short, you'd have to seriously inconvenience yourself to avoid being spied on all the time. The reason such surveillance is a problem is that it gets the majority of the population by placing itself smack in the middle of their everyday activities. If it was easy to avoid it, or if it was targeted at uncommon activities nobody 'd be worried about it.

jason_slack 9y ago

>> I can choose to leave my phone, or buy a wifi only device, or take the cell modem out. In some countries perhaps. In China, you need your phone for everything. Paying for stuff, getting a taxi, food, etc. Everything tied to a phone.

iforgotpassword 9y ago
Optionally, so no. Cash exists, even in China. The surveillance cameras everywhere are much harder to avoid.
- jason_slack 9y ago
  It is not so optional though. Living in China without a phone is very hard to do. Having spent time there just a few months ago many places wouldn't take cash and even did not have enough cash to make change. The cameras I think are impossible to avoid. I read an article recently where the police found a man within 7 minutes or something using the cctv system.
  - d21d3q 9y ago
    How about wearing Sombrero?