4 ms·

>>You still like Perl, and that's fine. I hope I've given you some sense, however, of why some of us prefer other languages. Frankly, we have all seen the argu

by berntb 16y ago

>>You still like Perl, and that's fine. I hope I've given you some sense, however, of why some of us prefer other languages. Frankly, we have all seen the arguments -- when Perl is mentioned on e.g. HN there are always lots of Python lovers which love to tell us them... It is BTW nice to have OO built in -- and it is nice to have a better OO system in Perl's Moose. And so one. And so on. And so on. :-( IMHO, the main problem with Perl is the complexity/learning time; the good part is that it is fun. I promised myself a few years ago that if I should work more with computers, it would be things that made me happy. You were at least polite and informed, but after all those language war lovers, if I change it will be to Ruby. :-) But sure, come back when it is neat in Python to copy/paste code with variant indentations [Edit: -- and write decent one liners, I never use the REPL]... :-) Edit: And sure, chromatic wrote that -- as answer to yet another Python trolling... Edit 2: We have seen the arguments. Before Moose, the Perl OO was derided as a killing problem -- now Moose which is arguably better OO than Python -- is dismissed. And so on.

neild 16y ago
I was responding to a comment in which chromatic specifically asked for reasons to prefer Python over Perl. As such, "we have all seen the arguments" is needlessly dismissive at best.
- berntb 16y ago
  [Edit: This was days later, the one I comment on might never see it. It is just for my personal peace of mind to answer seriously, despite that the subject is a bit more flaming material than editors.] In hindsight, it doesn't feel good just to answer by a couple of edits on my GF comment. First, as I wrote, the way how the arguments change over time is irritating -- now you dismissed not only CPAN but also that the OO afaik is superior to Python. Perl is messy and complex from its natural language inspiration. The main problem with that is the learning time. (Given that you work with non-newbies that can document and follow coding standards.) The advantage with being messy is that growth happens in more areas. Moose is arguably a better OO then Python at this time. There are now standard ways of extending the language. Etc. (You could call it "better evolvability".) Personally, I like the insanity -- that Perl breaks most every design rule for programming languages that ever existed, but still works. Well, that and the smart and laid back people of the community. That is what keeps me using Perl; it puts a smile on my face and keep me happy. When the day ends, motivation is everything. I can't get out of bed in the mornings just for money... But... I am not religious. A job offer with a nice Lisp variant would tempt me. I should get a book about Haskell and read. Or maybe Perl 6. To change between Ruby, Perl and Python do seem totally meaningless, they mostly fill the same niche. Which is why the trolling of competitors seems so intense from the True Believers' preferred environments (and yes, that view of Python has been growing on me over the last few years.)
  - chromatic 16y ago
    Perl is messy and complex because problems are messy and complex.

by berntb 16y ago

neild 16y ago

I was responding to a comment in which chromatic specifically asked for reasons to prefer Python over Perl. As such, "we have all seen the arguments" is needlessly dismissive at best.

berntb 16y ago
[Edit: This was days later, the one I comment on might never see it. It is just for my personal peace of mind to answer seriously, despite that the subject is a bit more flaming material than editors.] In hindsight, it doesn't feel good just to answer by a couple of edits on my GF comment. First, as I wrote, the way how the arguments change over time is irritating -- now you dismissed not only CPAN but also that the OO afaik is superior to Python. Perl is messy and complex from its natural language inspiration. The main problem with that is the learning time. (Given that you work with non-newbies that can document and follow coding standards.) The advantage with being messy is that growth happens in more areas. Moose is arguably a better OO then Python at this time. There are now standard ways of extending the language. Etc. (You could call it "better evolvability".) Personally, I like the insanity -- that Perl breaks most every design rule for programming languages that ever existed, but still works. Well, that and the smart and laid back people of the community. That is what keeps me using Perl; it puts a smile on my face and keep me happy. When the day ends, motivation is everything. I can't get out of bed in the mornings just for money... But... I am not religious. A job offer with a nice Lisp variant would tempt me. I should get a book about Haskell and read. Or maybe Perl 6. To change between Ruby, Perl and Python do seem totally meaningless, they mostly fill the same niche. Which is why the trolling of competitors seems so intense from the True Believers' preferred environments (and yes, that view of Python has been growing on me over the last few years.)
- chromatic 16y ago
  Perl is messy and complex because problems are messy and complex.