4 ms·

Almost all antidepressants list the increase of suicide risk as a side effect, which is frightening. Zoloft for example [1]: > An increased risk of suicidal t

by dsego 9y ago

Almost all antidepressants list the increase of suicide risk as a side effect, which is frightening. Zoloft for example [1]: > An increased risk of suicidal thinking and behavior in children, adolescents, and young adults (aged 18 to 24 years) with major depressive disorder (MDD) and other psychiatric disorders has been reported with short-term use of antidepressant drugs. [1]https://www.drugs.com/sfx/zoloft-side-effects.html https://www.drugs.com/sfx/zoloft-side-effects.html On a personal note, I am very sorry for your loss.

EdwardDiego 9y ago
From my experience, it's because as they kick in, you suddenly have energy and motivation you didn't have before, but you still have the suicidal thoughts until they become properly efficacious.
- ufo 9y ago
  IIRC this is also the most widely accepted theory for it.
- justasitsounds 9y ago
  I've heard that too. Along with the apparent external signs of an 'uptick in mood' (for want of a better phrase) when someone resolves to end it: IE. a lifting of a burden. I'd also like to say, to anyone reading this who is entertaining thoughts of self-harm or suicide: Please, please reach out for help. In my mother's case her suffering was almost certainly compounded by an irrational shame and self-imposed stigma. I'm just an armchair critic, if you are taking medication and you feel like it is helping - it is. If it isn't helping, please talk to your healthcare professionals about alternative treatment - there are always other options that don't involve hurting those who love you
dsego 9y ago
I am also very disillusioned with the psychiatric profession. The way they prescribe drugs seems no better than guesswork. Two years ago my dad having what I recognized as parkisonisms and akathisia but the psychiatrist said it wasn't possible because they had stopped giving him haldol. But then when she saw him, she said why we didn't come sooner (it's always the patient's fault) and quickly prescribed akineton. This has helped a little, but he has never recovered fully. He had also been on various antidepressants since 1994, Cymbalta, Velafax, Quentiax, Seroxat, Mirzaten, Ladiomil, probably more. I mean, what's the use? What is the actual use of taking those pills for decades?
- colordrops 9y ago
  Making money for big pharma, unfortunately. It's really ugly out there.
  - hndamien 9y ago
    The was a guy named Loren Mosher who was the head of the National Institute of Medical Health (NIMH) who vehemently spoke out against the use of neuroleptics. He was removed from his position despite there being numerous studies (including one done by the World Health Organisation (WHO)) indicating that the use of these/ access to drugs were correlative to rates of chronic conditions. He also ran the Soteria project that had moderate replicable success without drugs by having patients live together in certain controlled conditions.
erkose 9y ago
I'd like to see some controlled studies with marijuana.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- nasredin 9y ago
  Not gonna happen. Cannabis is on Schedule 1. Which, IIRC means zero beneficial medical use (think heroin, cocaine). See the recent article with pictures of the "marijuana" that the government gives to researchers. And with Sessions as the AG, I don't think the situation is changing soon.
  - matt4077 9y ago
    "Medical Marijuana" should be a known term for someone who has heard of Jeff Sessions, considering most of the legalisation debate was initially focussed on such uses. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_cannabis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_cannabis lists some uses and existing research. Depression is probably a bad fit for Cannabis. Within the space of drugs that are used recreationally, Ketamine is (was?) the big hope.
    - zafka 9y ago
      Ketamine is being used by quite a few doctors to treat depression. There are actual "Ketamine clinics" that specialize in it. The big guys are catching on to the fact that is works, and are devising analogues: http://adisinsight.springer.com/drugs/800037644 http://adisinsight.springer.com/drugs/800037644
justasitsounds 9y ago
Like all side-effect warnings I'm pretty sure the warnings about increased suicide risk are only added after the drugs have been on the market for a while (and having accumulated a few lawsuits). As with the generic 'this product may contain nuts' warnings on food these smack of post-hoc ass-covering to me. While my scepticism of 'alternative' medicine, magical thinking and general woo-woo is as strong as ever, my experiences of the last couple of years have really shaken the former certainty I used to express in the rigour of science-based medicine. I still believe in the method, but the execution seems to leave a lot to be desired. Not entirely unrelated, I'm reminded why I became disillusioned with my biochem undergrad studies - specifically the labwork. We were repeatedly told to ignore results that didn't produce the 'correct' result and were even docked marks for effectively honest reporting. Although I'm sure it was mostly crappy technique that was to blame. Thanks for your kind words
- skybrian 9y ago
  That sounds like a class in reverse ethics. Is it widespread? I wonder if that sort of thing contributes to the reproducability crisis?
- ianai 9y ago
  I think those side effects are boilerplate across all drugs of the same action/class. Support for this is in the allergic reaction language. This is from someone who recently went through many Rxs in search of something that would work. (The ultimate lesson I learned was to seek professionals that specialize in whatever the chronic illness may be.) Maybe science and medicine have much yet to learn or are being led astray by current theories. I am sorry for your loss. My own mother has a severe hack and cough from a life of smoking. I know I’ll miss her deeply when she leaves me someday. I can’t fathom how painful that must be.
- frangipane 9y ago
  "Science-based" is such a meaningless weasel adjective. Either you have evidence or you have a nice-sounding story....but the latter has nothing to do with science properly understood. Sorry for your loss.
mattmanser 9y ago
I used to work in the pharma industry a long time ago as an undergrad, my (now hazy) understanding of it is that anything that happens in a clinical trial they have to list as a potential side-effect. As they're being tested on people with depression who have a higher chance to kill themselves, it's almost an inevitability that's going to show up as a side-effect, as unfortunately some of the trial people will kill themselves. I'm trying to saying it's not necessarily causation that's it listed as a side-effect.

by dsego 9y ago

EdwardDiego 9y ago

From my experience, it's because as they kick in, you suddenly have energy and motivation you didn't have before, but you still have the suicidal thoughts until they become properly efficacious.

ufo 9y ago
IIRC this is also the most widely accepted theory for it.
justasitsounds 9y ago
I've heard that too. Along with the apparent external signs of an 'uptick in mood' (for want of a better phrase) when someone resolves to end it: IE. a lifting of a burden. I'd also like to say, to anyone reading this who is entertaining thoughts of self-harm or suicide: Please, please reach out for help. In my mother's case her suffering was almost certainly compounded by an irrational shame and self-imposed stigma. I'm just an armchair critic, if you are taking medication and you feel like it is helping - it is. If it isn't helping, please talk to your healthcare professionals about alternative treatment - there are always other options that don't involve hurting those who love you

dsego 9y ago

I am also very disillusioned with the psychiatric profession. The way they prescribe drugs seems no better than guesswork. Two years ago my dad having what I recognized as parkisonisms and akathisia but the psychiatrist said it wasn't possible because they had stopped giving him haldol. But then when she saw him, she said why we didn't come sooner (it's always the patient's fault) and quickly prescribed akineton. This has helped a little, but he has never recovered fully. He had also been on various antidepressants since 1994, Cymbalta, Velafax, Quentiax, Seroxat, Mirzaten, Ladiomil, probably more. I mean, what's the use? What is the actual use of taking those pills for decades?

colordrops 9y ago
Making money for big pharma, unfortunately. It's really ugly out there.
- hndamien 9y ago
  The was a guy named Loren Mosher who was the head of the National Institute of Medical Health (NIMH) who vehemently spoke out against the use of neuroleptics. He was removed from his position despite there being numerous studies (including one done by the World Health Organisation (WHO)) indicating that the use of these/ access to drugs were correlative to rates of chronic conditions. He also ran the Soteria project that had moderate replicable success without drugs by having patients live together in certain controlled conditions.

erkose 9y ago

I'd like to see some controlled studies with marijuana.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
nasredin 9y ago
Not gonna happen. Cannabis is on Schedule 1. Which, IIRC means zero beneficial medical use (think heroin, cocaine). See the recent article with pictures of the "marijuana" that the government gives to researchers. And with Sessions as the AG, I don't think the situation is changing soon.
- matt4077 9y ago
  "Medical Marijuana" should be a known term for someone who has heard of Jeff Sessions, considering most of the legalisation debate was initially focussed on such uses. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_cannabis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_cannabis lists some uses and existing research. Depression is probably a bad fit for Cannabis. Within the space of drugs that are used recreationally, Ketamine is (was?) the big hope.
  - zafka 9y ago
    Ketamine is being used by quite a few doctors to treat depression. There are actual "Ketamine clinics" that specialize in it. The big guys are catching on to the fact that is works, and are devising analogues: http://adisinsight.springer.com/drugs/800037644 http://adisinsight.springer.com/drugs/800037644

justasitsounds 9y ago

Like all side-effect warnings I'm pretty sure the warnings about increased suicide risk are only added after the drugs have been on the market for a while (and having accumulated a few lawsuits). As with the generic 'this product may contain nuts' warnings on food these smack of post-hoc ass-covering to me. While my scepticism of 'alternative' medicine, magical thinking and general woo-woo is as strong as ever, my experiences of the last couple of years have really shaken the former certainty I used to express in the rigour of science-based medicine. I still believe in the method, but the execution seems to leave a lot to be desired. Not entirely unrelated, I'm reminded why I became disillusioned with my biochem undergrad studies - specifically the labwork. We were repeatedly told to ignore results that didn't produce the 'correct' result and were even docked marks for effectively honest reporting. Although I'm sure it was mostly crappy technique that was to blame. Thanks for your kind words

skybrian 9y ago
That sounds like a class in reverse ethics. Is it widespread? I wonder if that sort of thing contributes to the reproducability crisis?
ianai 9y ago
I think those side effects are boilerplate across all drugs of the same action/class. Support for this is in the allergic reaction language. This is from someone who recently went through many Rxs in search of something that would work. (The ultimate lesson I learned was to seek professionals that specialize in whatever the chronic illness may be.) Maybe science and medicine have much yet to learn or are being led astray by current theories. I am sorry for your loss. My own mother has a severe hack and cough from a life of smoking. I know I’ll miss her deeply when she leaves me someday. I can’t fathom how painful that must be.
frangipane 9y ago
"Science-based" is such a meaningless weasel adjective. Either you have evidence or you have a nice-sounding story....but the latter has nothing to do with science properly understood. Sorry for your loss.

mattmanser 9y ago

I used to work in the pharma industry a long time ago as an undergrad, my (now hazy) understanding of it is that anything that happens in a clinical trial they have to list as a potential side-effect. As they're being tested on people with depression who have a higher chance to kill themselves, it's almost an inevitability that's going to show up as a side-effect, as unfortunately some of the trial people will kill themselves. I'm trying to saying it's not necessarily causation that's it listed as a side-effect.