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I seriously can’t understand how these vaccinations aren’t mandated by law without exception. The point of vaccination is to protect public health from devastat

I seriously can’t understand how these vaccinations aren’t mandated by law without exception. The point of vaccination is to protect public health from devastating communicable diseases, just like the point of fire codes are to protect the community from fires that could easily spread from building to building and destroy an entire city. It’s like being able to sign a ‘personal belief exemption’ saying you don’t believe in fire codes in order to exempt your house from them. I’m largely a libertarian, but I certainly don’t want my neighboring houses to all be firetraps.

rue 16y ago
> It’s like being able to sign a ‘personal belief exemption’ saying you don’t believe in fire codes in order to exempt your house from them. More like exempting your office building from them.
philwelch 16y ago
The "personal belief exemption" should involve being quarantined with the other idiots who refuse vaccinations. At 80%, some neighborhoods seem to already be volunteering for that role.
Oxryly 16y ago
I don't thing the metaphor holds up. If you vaccinate your child, why do you care if other children are vaccinated or not? Your kid is immune...
- ars 16y ago
  Many vaccines can only be given to older children. Babies can not be vaccinated, and they rely on the fact that everyone around them is vaccinated and can not give them the disease.
- skoob 16y ago
  I'll just quote Science-Based Medicine (http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=516 http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=516): "The decrease in the number of disease carriers is vital to the prevention of bacterial infections. Vaccines are never 100% effective. Some people are genetically unable to respond to the vaccine, some have immunodeficiencies that preclude receiving vaccines or developing a response to the vaccine, some haven’t gotten around to vaccination or are too young to receive a vaccine. If you vaccinate a large number of people, besides preventing disease in an individual, it helps protect the vulnerable in a population. Vaccines prevent disease propagation." "The vaccine [for whooping cough] is good, but not perfect. Vaccine efficacy is 64% for cases defined by mild cough, 81% for paroxysmal cough, and 95% for severe clinical illness (11). Note the vaccine is good for attenuating the disease, not preventing it entirely."
- codyrobbins 16y ago
  In addition to the point skoob makes, there are also the considerable economic and societal costs of an epidemic. These costs are borne by the society as a whole, and therefore the society as a whole has a prerogative to minimize contagious epidemics. By your same reasoning, the Holocaust should not matter to you as long as you’re not a Jew or a homosexual. The point is that mass sickness has an appreciable effect on you even if you don’t contract the illness yourself.
  - Oxryly 16y ago
    boo Godwin.
- hartror 16y ago
  This is the most important reason why: http://danamccaffery.com/ http://danamccaffery.com/ This is a pretty famous case in Australia, their baby died of whooping cough which she was too young to be vaccinated against which she caught due to poor vaccination rates in their area. They went public with what happened on national TV which drew the ire of a anti vaccination lobby group called AVN (i refuse to link them) which then pursued them publicly and privately to disprove or retract their statements. The Health Care Complaints Commission is now investigating the AVN for breaches of the health care provider code but as with most government organisations it takes time.
ars 16y ago
Two reasons: 1: Vaccines have negative side effects, fire codes don't (except cost, but that doesn't count). 2: You can not force people to accept medical treatment. And if you change the policy you are going down a VERY slippery slope. Can you force a sex offender to take anti-testosterone injections? Can you force someone with bi-polar disorder to take a drug? What about someone with a mental illness who can not stand trial - can you forcibly medicate them?
- phren0logy 16y ago
  To your second point, in some circumstances you can force someone with bipolar disorder to take a drug (Washington v. Harper) and you can force someone with a mental illness to take medication to make them competent to stand trial (Sell v. US).
  - woodall 16y ago
    >in some circumstances It is very important to note that this only applies when a defendant is a danger to self or others. You cannot force a person with bipolar disorder to take medication if they have not committed a crime, or if they are not a danger. Both cases also deal only with persons incarcerated- as opposed to "free".
    - phren0logy 16y ago
      False. Dr. Sell of Sell v. US was not a specific danger to others, his case deals with forced medication to restore competency to stand trial (for a serious crime) in the absence of danger to self or others. You are right, though, that he was in custody because he had been charged with a crime.
- gamble 16y ago
  Vaccines are not an entirely personal choice. Many children can't be vaccinated due to an allergic reaction, and some vaccines require a series of injections before immunity is acquired. What saves them is herd immunity. Enough people have chosen not to vaccinate that herd immunity is being lost and these kids are at risk. What about their right to life?
kmfrk 16y ago
In a political climate where one party's most frequently used phrase is "ram down our throats", this would just fuel the fire even more. Especially with the momentum the Tea Party movement has.

rue 16y ago

> It’s like being able to sign a ‘personal belief exemption’ saying you don’t believe in fire codes in order to exempt your house from them. More like exempting your office building from them.

philwelch 16y ago

The "personal belief exemption" should involve being quarantined with the other idiots who refuse vaccinations. At 80%, some neighborhoods seem to already be volunteering for that role.

Oxryly 16y ago

I don't thing the metaphor holds up. If you vaccinate your child, why do you care if other children are vaccinated or not? Your kid is immune...

ars 16y ago
Many vaccines can only be given to older children. Babies can not be vaccinated, and they rely on the fact that everyone around them is vaccinated and can not give them the disease.
skoob 16y ago
I'll just quote Science-Based Medicine (http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=516 http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=516): "The decrease in the number of disease carriers is vital to the prevention of bacterial infections. Vaccines are never 100% effective. Some people are genetically unable to respond to the vaccine, some have immunodeficiencies that preclude receiving vaccines or developing a response to the vaccine, some haven’t gotten around to vaccination or are too young to receive a vaccine. If you vaccinate a large number of people, besides preventing disease in an individual, it helps protect the vulnerable in a population. Vaccines prevent disease propagation." "The vaccine [for whooping cough] is good, but not perfect. Vaccine efficacy is 64% for cases defined by mild cough, 81% for paroxysmal cough, and 95% for severe clinical illness (11). Note the vaccine is good for attenuating the disease, not preventing it entirely."
codyrobbins 16y ago
In addition to the point skoob makes, there are also the considerable economic and societal costs of an epidemic. These costs are borne by the society as a whole, and therefore the society as a whole has a prerogative to minimize contagious epidemics. By your same reasoning, the Holocaust should not matter to you as long as you’re not a Jew or a homosexual. The point is that mass sickness has an appreciable effect on you even if you don’t contract the illness yourself.
- Oxryly 16y ago
  boo Godwin.
hartror 16y ago
This is the most important reason why: http://danamccaffery.com/ http://danamccaffery.com/ This is a pretty famous case in Australia, their baby died of whooping cough which she was too young to be vaccinated against which she caught due to poor vaccination rates in their area. They went public with what happened on national TV which drew the ire of a anti vaccination lobby group called AVN (i refuse to link them) which then pursued them publicly and privately to disprove or retract their statements. The Health Care Complaints Commission is now investigating the AVN for breaches of the health care provider code but as with most government organisations it takes time.

ars 16y ago

Two reasons: 1: Vaccines have negative side effects, fire codes don't (except cost, but that doesn't count). 2: You can not force people to accept medical treatment. And if you change the policy you are going down a VERY slippery slope. Can you force a sex offender to take anti-testosterone injections? Can you force someone with bi-polar disorder to take a drug? What about someone with a mental illness who can not stand trial - can you forcibly medicate them?

phren0logy 16y ago
To your second point, in some circumstances you can force someone with bipolar disorder to take a drug (Washington v. Harper) and you can force someone with a mental illness to take medication to make them competent to stand trial (Sell v. US).
- woodall 16y ago
  >in some circumstances It is very important to note that this only applies when a defendant is a danger to self or others. You cannot force a person with bipolar disorder to take medication if they have not committed a crime, or if they are not a danger. Both cases also deal only with persons incarcerated- as opposed to "free".
  - phren0logy 16y ago
    False. Dr. Sell of Sell v. US was not a specific danger to others, his case deals with forced medication to restore competency to stand trial (for a serious crime) in the absence of danger to self or others. You are right, though, that he was in custody because he had been charged with a crime.
gamble 16y ago
Vaccines are not an entirely personal choice. Many children can't be vaccinated due to an allergic reaction, and some vaccines require a series of injections before immunity is acquired. What saves them is herd immunity. Enough people have chosen not to vaccinate that herd immunity is being lost and these kids are at risk. What about their right to life?

kmfrk 16y ago

In a political climate where one party's most frequently used phrase is "ram down our throats", this would just fuel the fire even more. Especially with the momentum the Tea Party movement has.