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How are you employed? I'm doing the 43h grind (+ travel) to boost my career a bit, but plan to reduce that a lot as soon as possible :) Sadly it's a bit more d

How are you employed? I'm doing the 43h grind (+ travel) to boost my career a bit, but plan to reduce that a lot as soon as possible :) Sadly it's a bit more difficult as a product manager. Simply being around for anything that comes up is very valuable in that position. I might need to plan the jump to consultancy some day.

KaiserPro 9y ago
I spent the time to find a company that understands what its like to have a family. My wife is a doctor, so she works all hours, this means that I am looking after the kids. So someone having issues on the system is frankly worth shit all compared to feeding/bathing/putting to bed my children. I'm a sysadmin/sre/devop (delete as appropriate) so I do _occationally_ work out of hours. However I make it clear that I only expect to be called when there is a buisness level event (as in, if this doesn't get fixed we are going to go bankcrupt) I am honest with my potential employer. I say I have to be back at my children's nursery by 18:00 of it'll cost one pound for every minute I'm late. Once I am home, I'm off the clock, and unless they are going to pay me _at least_ double time, I'm not ever working out of my contracted hours. My rational is this: In england, people have literally died for workers rights. I will not undermine other by "going above and beyond" The contract pays me for x hours, and thats what they get. Would a company expect a SaaS contract to offer 30% free funcionality? no, thats what contracts with SLAs are for. Why should employees be any different.
- anotheryou 9y ago
  Very reasonable, I totally agree.
- Myoldthrowie 9y ago
  Do you receive compensation for the occasional out of hours work that you do? Just asking since it appears that you've drawn a distinct line. I have a similar role in London and having a hard time processing the situation. Employer confirmed that they won't pay for more than the contracted 35 hours a week, but I'm subtly expected to be available at any time and frequently work Saturday and/or Sunday when there's scheduled maintenance. I've had phone calls on weekends when the stuff I'm solely responsible for stops working. I'm not interested in time in lieu as weekends are the only time my wife has at home for us to spend time together. I also need the money,job is reasonably paid, so I can't just walk.
olegious 9y ago
Fellow PM here- I think as PMs we have a tendency to feel like we should be involved in as many projects as possible, but it is important to really pick and choose where you can add value (and get value back) so that you don't stretch yourself too thing. I've been using a framework to evaluate opportunities and only focus on the most important ones- the others I ether say "no" to or delegate to another PM/team. It is highly unlikely that "anything that comes up" is truly that valuable/worth the distraction.
- KaiserPro 9y ago
  Indeed, one must limit the "wip" to avoid constant tail spin. Being a PM I would say is harder to just do the contracted hours, as you are expected to always be there, just like the carpet. Also you need to provide guidance to the rest of the team, who may choose to work late. But, I have worked with very effective PMs who literally forced people home at the end of the day. Productivity (as measured) was not affected
- anotheryou 9y ago
  With "always there" I mean normal business hours, making it harder to do it in less than 40h/week. In a small company there is also less possibility to delegate.

KaiserPro 9y ago

I spent the time to find a company that understands what its like to have a family. My wife is a doctor, so she works all hours, this means that I am looking after the kids. So someone having issues on the system is frankly worth shit all compared to feeding/bathing/putting to bed my children. I'm a sysadmin/sre/devop (delete as appropriate) so I do _occationally_ work out of hours. However I make it clear that I only expect to be called when there is a buisness level event (as in, if this doesn't get fixed we are going to go bankcrupt) I am honest with my potential employer. I say I have to be back at my children's nursery by 18:00 of it'll cost one pound for every minute I'm late. Once I am home, I'm off the clock, and unless they are going to pay me _at least_ double time, I'm not ever working out of my contracted hours. My rational is this: In england, people have literally died for workers rights. I will not undermine other by "going above and beyond" The contract pays me for x hours, and thats what they get. Would a company expect a SaaS contract to offer 30% free funcionality? no, thats what contracts with SLAs are for. Why should employees be any different.

anotheryou 9y ago
Very reasonable, I totally agree.
Myoldthrowie 9y ago
Do you receive compensation for the occasional out of hours work that you do? Just asking since it appears that you've drawn a distinct line. I have a similar role in London and having a hard time processing the situation. Employer confirmed that they won't pay for more than the contracted 35 hours a week, but I'm subtly expected to be available at any time and frequently work Saturday and/or Sunday when there's scheduled maintenance. I've had phone calls on weekends when the stuff I'm solely responsible for stops working. I'm not interested in time in lieu as weekends are the only time my wife has at home for us to spend time together. I also need the money,job is reasonably paid, so I can't just walk.

olegious 9y ago

Fellow PM here- I think as PMs we have a tendency to feel like we should be involved in as many projects as possible, but it is important to really pick and choose where you can add value (and get value back) so that you don't stretch yourself too thing. I've been using a framework to evaluate opportunities and only focus on the most important ones- the others I ether say "no" to or delegate to another PM/team. It is highly unlikely that "anything that comes up" is truly that valuable/worth the distraction.

KaiserPro 9y ago
Indeed, one must limit the "wip" to avoid constant tail spin. Being a PM I would say is harder to just do the contracted hours, as you are expected to always be there, just like the carpet. Also you need to provide guidance to the rest of the team, who may choose to work late. But, I have worked with very effective PMs who literally forced people home at the end of the day. Productivity (as measured) was not affected
anotheryou 9y ago
With "always there" I mean normal business hours, making it harder to do it in less than 40h/week. In a small company there is also less possibility to delegate.