4 ms·

San Francisco renters paying $1,100 a month to live in converted living rooms

12 points by SirLJ 9y ago

Alfredo123 9y ago
Simple solution here is that SF changes its zoning laws to allow for bigger and better units. Secondly, I am not 100% sure why many companies like Twitter etc. have built their HQs in SF instead of someplace else. If Netflix can attract talented engineers in Los Gatos why can't Twitter. Also it is so sad that Google, Facebook etc. are not diversifying their offices as much as they should have. Of course it probably makes sense to diversify around world instead of within USA because they seem to be investing more and more into Canada or China.
gargarplex 9y ago
There is a huge market (i.e., base of buyers) for affordable housing for people who just want safe, private, convenient shelter. Maybe there's a surplus of luxury housing in SF, but I think a luxury building is an amenity that needlessly adds to the cost. Incidentally, I was thinking about opening a hacker founder community somewhere affordable, like Detroit. But Detroit is cold.
- chris11 9y ago
  Then again, there are some amenities I'd like if I'm paying SF rent. For instance, I was recently in SF and looked in into a one-bedroom non-luxury apartment that I could easily have afforded back home. It was 3k a month and didn't even have an in unit washer and dryer.
  - gargarplex 9y ago
    I can't do laundry ever again. I have fully bought into wash and fold. It's a total no brainer. For $25 I just got an entire hamper worth of mixed laundry washed and folded for me. The time and economics make it totally worth it. I would definitely want to offer wash and fold service. Privacy is important. I don't know that an "upholstered partition" (http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/5a501548c32ae61e008b4d65-1874/screen%20shot%202018-01-05%20at%2041233%20pm.png http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/5a501548c32ae61e008...), which honestly reminds me of the doors of American bathroom stalls, offers enough of a sense of privacy, especially because of sound.
    - lorenzq 9y ago
      If you have a salaried job how do you justify spending that money when you can’t earn more money outside of your salary?
      - gargarplex 9y ago
        I don't have a salaried job currently. I have a software consulting business, link in profile.
digi_owl 9y ago
Sound like something out of Hong Kong...
jumpkick 9y ago
The rest of the article title is significant: "...is so dire that renters are paying $1,100 a month to live in converted living rooms." "Converted living rooms" is critical. My initial reaction to the HN headline was "what a great deal!" as I pay $1200 for a three bedroom, two bath house in central Florida. SF suddenly looked a lot more appealing!
crdoconnor 9y ago
When/if the revolution comes, I really hope it comes with a 100% land value tax.
- Clubber 9y ago
  When/if the revolution comes, think constant IED's and slaughter like in Iraq. Guilt or innocence has nothing to do with the target either. Revolutions rarely result in something "better," at least for the majority of the citizenry. I can't think of one other than the US 1776 and the French in 1799 that turned out better for the citizens, and these were both a special case during a special time that probably will never be repeated. The result of revolutions also last generations. No, revolutions are when the citizens are convinced that "burning it down" will result in a better outcome. Most of the time, it just creates a power vacuum tyrants have an uncanny ability to fill that vacuum because they are ruthless and unscrupulous. Think Iran circa 1979, Cuba circa 1959, Egypt fairly recently, Russia circa 1917 etc.
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    > Revolutions rarely result in something "better," at least for the majority of the citizenry. I can't think of one other than the US 1776 and the French in 1799 that turned out better for the citizens, America in 1776 was more of a regional separatist movement than a revolution (despite the popular name), and there are plenty of regional separatist movements that worked out well for the separatists. France didn't have a revolution in 1799; if you mean 1789, I'm not sure I'd call that a win in any direct sense, despite laying groundwork for distant future progress, both in France and elsewhere. > No, revolutions are when the citizens are convinced that "burning it down" will result in a better outcome. More often, they happen when citizens think that absent a revolution, all will be imminently and certainly lost, and that burning it all down offers at least an outside chance of less than total loss.
  - gargarplex 9y ago
    We are better positioned than ever to create an organized revolution. Look at YCombinator is doing, they are prototyping Basic Income. Keeps the masses loyal, it's totally disruptive and 100x better than our current welfare systems. Add housing, healthcare, and it's only a matter of time before they aggressively invest in weapons programs (I would be surprised if there are no current cyber warfare/espionage investments). The revolution is happening, we're here on the ground floor, and we have a voice in this forum.
mikhailfranco 9y ago
SF startups appear to be a fascinating way for landlords to extract money from VCs. I wonder if the landlords give away plausible ideas to young hackers to pitch to the VCs? Perhaps landlords run all the incubators? The employees of startups are working very hard to channel money from one very rich person, to another very rich person, in the vain hope of having an imperceptible chance of becoming a very rich person themselves.
- quantumofmalice 9y ago
  Georgism, a tremendously popular school of economic thought in the US at one point that has been memory holed by the powers that be, advocated taxing rents at very high rates: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgism
- mikhailfranco 9y ago
  Brannan's Maxim: During a gold rush, sell shovels. https://www.flexport.com/blog/trade-merchants-rich-california-gold-rush/ https://www.flexport.com/blog/trade-merchants-rich-californi...

12 points by SirLJ 9y ago

Simple solution here is that SF changes its zoning laws to allow for bigger and better units. Secondly, I am not 100% sure why many companies like Twitter etc. have built their HQs in SF instead of someplace else. If Netflix can attract talented engineers in Los Gatos why can't Twitter. Also it is so sad that Google, Facebook etc. are not diversifying their offices as much as they should have. Of course it probably makes sense to diversify around world instead of within USA because they seem to be investing more and more into Canada or China.

gargarplex 9y ago

There is a huge market (i.e., base of buyers) for affordable housing for people who just want safe, private, convenient shelter. Maybe there's a surplus of luxury housing in SF, but I think a luxury building is an amenity that needlessly adds to the cost. Incidentally, I was thinking about opening a hacker founder community somewhere affordable, like Detroit. But Detroit is cold.

chris11 9y ago
Then again, there are some amenities I'd like if I'm paying SF rent. For instance, I was recently in SF and looked in into a one-bedroom non-luxury apartment that I could easily have afforded back home. It was 3k a month and didn't even have an in unit washer and dryer.
- gargarplex 9y ago
  I can't do laundry ever again. I have fully bought into wash and fold. It's a total no brainer. For $25 I just got an entire hamper worth of mixed laundry washed and folded for me. The time and economics make it totally worth it. I would definitely want to offer wash and fold service. Privacy is important. I don't know that an "upholstered partition" (http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/5a501548c32ae61e008b4d65-1874/screen%20shot%202018-01-05%20at%2041233%20pm.png http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/5a501548c32ae61e008...), which honestly reminds me of the doors of American bathroom stalls, offers enough of a sense of privacy, especially because of sound.
  - lorenzq 9y ago
    If you have a salaried job how do you justify spending that money when you can’t earn more money outside of your salary?
    - gargarplex 9y ago
      I don't have a salaried job currently. I have a software consulting business, link in profile.

digi_owl 9y ago

Sound like something out of Hong Kong...

jumpkick 9y ago

The rest of the article title is significant: "...is so dire that renters are paying $1,100 a month to live in converted living rooms." "Converted living rooms" is critical. My initial reaction to the HN headline was "what a great deal!" as I pay $1200 for a three bedroom, two bath house in central Florida. SF suddenly looked a lot more appealing!

crdoconnor 9y ago

When/if the revolution comes, I really hope it comes with a 100% land value tax.

Clubber 9y ago
When/if the revolution comes, think constant IED's and slaughter like in Iraq. Guilt or innocence has nothing to do with the target either. Revolutions rarely result in something "better," at least for the majority of the citizenry. I can't think of one other than the US 1776 and the French in 1799 that turned out better for the citizens, and these were both a special case during a special time that probably will never be repeated. The result of revolutions also last generations. No, revolutions are when the citizens are convinced that "burning it down" will result in a better outcome. Most of the time, it just creates a power vacuum tyrants have an uncanny ability to fill that vacuum because they are ruthless and unscrupulous. Think Iran circa 1979, Cuba circa 1959, Egypt fairly recently, Russia circa 1917 etc.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > Revolutions rarely result in something "better," at least for the majority of the citizenry. I can't think of one other than the US 1776 and the French in 1799 that turned out better for the citizens, America in 1776 was more of a regional separatist movement than a revolution (despite the popular name), and there are plenty of regional separatist movements that worked out well for the separatists. France didn't have a revolution in 1799; if you mean 1789, I'm not sure I'd call that a win in any direct sense, despite laying groundwork for distant future progress, both in France and elsewhere. > No, revolutions are when the citizens are convinced that "burning it down" will result in a better outcome. More often, they happen when citizens think that absent a revolution, all will be imminently and certainly lost, and that burning it all down offers at least an outside chance of less than total loss.
- gargarplex 9y ago
  We are better positioned than ever to create an organized revolution. Look at YCombinator is doing, they are prototyping Basic Income. Keeps the masses loyal, it's totally disruptive and 100x better than our current welfare systems. Add housing, healthcare, and it's only a matter of time before they aggressively invest in weapons programs (I would be surprised if there are no current cyber warfare/espionage investments). The revolution is happening, we're here on the ground floor, and we have a voice in this forum.

mikhailfranco 9y ago

SF startups appear to be a fascinating way for landlords to extract money from VCs. I wonder if the landlords give away plausible ideas to young hackers to pitch to the VCs? Perhaps landlords run all the incubators? The employees of startups are working very hard to channel money from one very rich person, to another very rich person, in the vain hope of having an imperceptible chance of becoming a very rich person themselves.

quantumofmalice 9y ago
Georgism, a tremendously popular school of economic thought in the US at one point that has been memory holed by the powers that be, advocated taxing rents at very high rates: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgism
mikhailfranco 9y ago
Brannan's Maxim: During a gold rush, sell shovels. https://www.flexport.com/blog/trade-merchants-rich-california-gold-rush/ https://www.flexport.com/blog/trade-merchants-rich-californi...