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> Were they lying or did they not know what they are doing? This (less biased) article[0] seems to suggest your analysis is a bit off. Isn't there some old sa

> Were they lying or did they not know what they are doing? This (less biased) article[0] seems to suggest your analysis is a bit off. Isn't there some old saying about how an engineer can mathematically prove a bumblebee can't fly? [0]https://gpuofthebrain.com/blog/2016/7/22/how-magic-leap-will-work https://gpuofthebrain.com/blog/2016/7/22/how-magic-leap-will...

jfaat 9y ago
Had to look that saying up [0], but it seems like it’s just a made-up thing to help people who aren’t scientists cope with that fact. [0] https://www.snopes.com/science/bumblebees.asp https://www.snopes.com/science/bumblebees.asp
- rubidium 9y ago
  Not disagreeing that the saying may be made up, but Scientist != engineer. This is Especially applicable here in photonics and sight. Most engineering works in approximations that get taught as rules. One needs to be very careful of the assumptions they're making about the physical world and eyesight when discussing AR.
  - na85 9y ago
    >Scientist != engineer Evaluates to false. Engineering is applied science, and thus all engineers are in fact scientists.
    - alasdair_ 9y ago
      Arithmetic is applied mathematics, and thus all kindergartners are mathematicians.
yorwba 9y ago
That article doesn't really address the issue of the fiber speed except for "By using a piezoelectric actuator to achieve this scanning, one can maintain scan rates on the order of 10s of kHz" 10 kHz at a framerate of more than 100 Hz gives you less than 100 vibrations per frame. If each vibration covers a single row of pixels, you need at least a dozen fiber displays to produce a high-resolution display. There will likely be artifacts at the boundaries, but it might be possible to compensate. After reading this, I think that the technology might be possible, but it likely won't be as amazing as claimed by Magic Leap's PR.
- mojomark 9y ago
  @yorwba - You are correct, of course the fiber scan retinal display is feasible (albeit certainly very difficult to implement in an array for a wide FOV AR display). Please don't subscribe to the nonsense issued in the subject blog. For proof of concept, one need only look at the fiber scan endoscope demos: https://youtu.be/1UF9fJtZHAY https://youtu.be/1UF9fJtZHAY This is essentially the same technology, but operated in reverse (i.e. using the scanning fiber as a camera vice an image projector).
- kguttag 9y ago
  The GPU of The Brain author seems to be well meaning and nice guy but he don't not understand optics. The parallel fiber idea is "optically silly" but it takes some understanding of light to prove it is impossible too. It is yet another example of trying to fool people. I did try and explain this before on my blog over a year ago. See http://www.kguttag.com/2016/11/20/magic-leap-separating-magic-and-reality/ http://www.kguttag.com/2016/11/20/magic-leap-separating-magi... and scroll down to the Appendix at the bottom. Basically you have multiple fibers going in a circle each with their center of origin it becomes impossible to get them to act like a single image for use in near eye optic. What the layman would not understand is that this is very different from image stitching on a projection screen that in part relies on the light being diffused/randomized by the screen. In the case of near eye optics, there is no way to get the multiple projector image collimated AND seamlessly put together. It is yet another example of a good con has to seem believable.
  - UncleEntity 9y ago
    > Basically you have multiple fibers going in a circle each with their center of origin it becomes impossible to get them to act like a single image for use in near eye optic. Why would they go in a circle when all they need to do is provide a single wavelength on a single axis? A single axis movement seems to be enough, no? > In the case of near eye optics, there is no way to get the multiple projector image collimated AND seamlessly put together. Unless they did something completely crazy and invented a method to do this. And maybe with this "invention" they built a demo and showed it to a few folks who were like "hey, this really works, I think I'll write an article about it and get published in Rolling Stone" or "Dude, take my money, please." Reminds me of another story (definitely true and not about bumblebees). Henry Ford wanted a V8 engine block made out of a single casting and all the engineers said it wasn't possible. So what to do? Turns out throwing a shitton of money at a secret project lead to the answer and the flathead ford V8 engine was the result.

jfaat 9y ago

Had to look that saying up [0], but it seems like it’s just a made-up thing to help people who aren’t scientists cope with that fact. [0] https://www.snopes.com/science/bumblebees.asp https://www.snopes.com/science/bumblebees.asp

rubidium 9y ago
Not disagreeing that the saying may be made up, but Scientist != engineer. This is Especially applicable here in photonics and sight. Most engineering works in approximations that get taught as rules. One needs to be very careful of the assumptions they're making about the physical world and eyesight when discussing AR.
- na85 9y ago
  >Scientist != engineer Evaluates to false. Engineering is applied science, and thus all engineers are in fact scientists.
  - alasdair_ 9y ago
    Arithmetic is applied mathematics, and thus all kindergartners are mathematicians.

yorwba 9y ago

That article doesn't really address the issue of the fiber speed except for "By using a piezoelectric actuator to achieve this scanning, one can maintain scan rates on the order of 10s of kHz" 10 kHz at a framerate of more than 100 Hz gives you less than 100 vibrations per frame. If each vibration covers a single row of pixels, you need at least a dozen fiber displays to produce a high-resolution display. There will likely be artifacts at the boundaries, but it might be possible to compensate. After reading this, I think that the technology might be possible, but it likely won't be as amazing as claimed by Magic Leap's PR.

mojomark 9y ago
@yorwba - You are correct, of course the fiber scan retinal display is feasible (albeit certainly very difficult to implement in an array for a wide FOV AR display). Please don't subscribe to the nonsense issued in the subject blog. For proof of concept, one need only look at the fiber scan endoscope demos: https://youtu.be/1UF9fJtZHAY https://youtu.be/1UF9fJtZHAY This is essentially the same technology, but operated in reverse (i.e. using the scanning fiber as a camera vice an image projector).
kguttag 9y ago
The GPU of The Brain author seems to be well meaning and nice guy but he don't not understand optics. The parallel fiber idea is "optically silly" but it takes some understanding of light to prove it is impossible too. It is yet another example of trying to fool people. I did try and explain this before on my blog over a year ago. See http://www.kguttag.com/2016/11/20/magic-leap-separating-magic-and-reality/ http://www.kguttag.com/2016/11/20/magic-leap-separating-magi... and scroll down to the Appendix at the bottom. Basically you have multiple fibers going in a circle each with their center of origin it becomes impossible to get them to act like a single image for use in near eye optic. What the layman would not understand is that this is very different from image stitching on a projection screen that in part relies on the light being diffused/randomized by the screen. In the case of near eye optics, there is no way to get the multiple projector image collimated AND seamlessly put together. It is yet another example of a good con has to seem believable.
- UncleEntity 9y ago
  > Basically you have multiple fibers going in a circle each with their center of origin it becomes impossible to get them to act like a single image for use in near eye optic. Why would they go in a circle when all they need to do is provide a single wavelength on a single axis? A single axis movement seems to be enough, no? > In the case of near eye optics, there is no way to get the multiple projector image collimated AND seamlessly put together. Unless they did something completely crazy and invented a method to do this. And maybe with this "invention" they built a demo and showed it to a few folks who were like "hey, this really works, I think I'll write an article about it and get published in Rolling Stone" or "Dude, take my money, please." Reminds me of another story (definitely true and not about bumblebees). Henry Ford wanted a V8 engine block made out of a single casting and all the engineers said it wasn't possible. So what to do? Turns out throwing a shitton of money at a secret project lead to the answer and the flathead ford V8 engine was the result.