4 ms·

You can leave anytime though. Slaves can't.

steveklabnik 16y ago
You can leave your job, sure. And then default on your mortgage. Or be unable to pay your rent. And not be able to buy food. (or, if you mean "leave America," then you can move somewhere else... and you _still_ have to either work for yourself, or for someone else.) There's an illusion of choice, but choosing to work between McDonalds and Burger King isn't really a choice.
- rfrey 16y ago
  Freedom is not the same as having no responsibilities. Slavery is not the same as having responsibilities. Environmental constraints are not the same as having no choices. Consequences for one's choices are not the same as oppression.
  - steveklabnik 16y ago
    I'm not saying that you shouldn't work to eat; just that working for someone else isn't preferable to working for yourself. It's much more efficient, you get to keep all of your economic output, rather than giving it to someone else.
    - nostrademons 16y ago
      You're always working for someone else; that's why they pay you. The difference between employment and entrepreneurship is whether you're working for one person or for many people.
      - steveklabnik 16y ago
        While that's a cute phrase (and true), you're missing the point: it's about collecting all of the fruits of your labor, rather than just some of it.
- philwelch 16y ago
  That's the human condition. You can sit on your ass instead of hunting or gathering, but then you'd go hungry and be shunned by your tribe. You can sit on your ass instead of working your fields, but then your crops won't grow and you'll go hungry. You can sit on your ass instead of going to work at the mill every day, and then you won't be able to afford any food and you'll go hungry. I'm grateful we can sit in meetings and type code into computers in air-conditioned offices for our supper. Of course, building a business and having supper for life would be fantastic.
  - steveklabnik 16y ago
    See my response to rfrey above; I'm not saying that people shouldn't work, just that keeping all of your economic output is preferable to giving some of it to someone else.
- afterburner 16y ago
  You equate the chains of oppression with the completely voluntary choice to excel in life?
  - steveklabnik 16y ago
    Where did I say that? At all?

You can leave your job, sure. And then default on your mortgage. Or be unable to pay your rent. And not be able to buy food. (or, if you mean "leave America," then you can move somewhere else... and you _still_ have to either work for yourself, or for someone else.) There's an illusion of choice, but choosing to work between McDonalds and Burger King isn't really a choice.

rfrey 16y ago
Freedom is not the same as having no responsibilities. Slavery is not the same as having responsibilities. Environmental constraints are not the same as having no choices. Consequences for one's choices are not the same as oppression.
- steveklabnik 16y ago
  I'm not saying that you shouldn't work to eat; just that working for someone else isn't preferable to working for yourself. It's much more efficient, you get to keep all of your economic output, rather than giving it to someone else.
  - nostrademons 16y ago
    You're always working for someone else; that's why they pay you. The difference between employment and entrepreneurship is whether you're working for one person or for many people.
    - steveklabnik 16y ago
      While that's a cute phrase (and true), you're missing the point: it's about collecting all of the fruits of your labor, rather than just some of it.
philwelch 16y ago
That's the human condition. You can sit on your ass instead of hunting or gathering, but then you'd go hungry and be shunned by your tribe. You can sit on your ass instead of working your fields, but then your crops won't grow and you'll go hungry. You can sit on your ass instead of going to work at the mill every day, and then you won't be able to afford any food and you'll go hungry. I'm grateful we can sit in meetings and type code into computers in air-conditioned offices for our supper. Of course, building a business and having supper for life would be fantastic.
- steveklabnik 16y ago
  See my response to rfrey above; I'm not saying that people shouldn't work, just that keeping all of your economic output is preferable to giving some of it to someone else.
afterburner 16y ago
You equate the chains of oppression with the completely voluntary choice to excel in life?
- steveklabnik 16y ago
  Where did I say that? At all?