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Two things have always been true about human beings. One, the world is always getting better. Two, the people living at that time think it`s getting worse. Pen

Two things have always been true about human beings. One, the world is always getting better. Two, the people living at that time think it`s getting worse. Penn Jillette

gt_ 9y ago
And there are enough versions of ‘better’ for both assessments to be right.
jacquesm 9y ago
The viewpoint that things are getting better is usually reserved for those that were pretty lucky in the birth lottery to begin with.
Letmesleep69 9y ago
I thought things always getting better is a relatively recent phenomenon. Things didn't get better for hundreds of years for the native Americans when Columbus came to America. Or after the fall of the roman empire was Europe as good the next few hundred years? Maybe there has been a general trend up but if the trend can drop drastically for the few years you're living in does the general trend up make a difference?
- johnwheeler 9y ago
  I think it’s meant to be figurative more than literal.
  - charlesism 9y ago
    Is that a euphemism for "I think it’s wrong"?
  - chickenfries 9y ago
    You won't even defend the quote you posted from it's most obvious criticism?
    - grzm 9y ago
      To everyone in this thread: please step back and ask yourself why you're continuing to comment. Are you looking to be understood? To understand? To prove or show that someone else wrong? If it's not one of the first two, please just stop. If it is one (or both! which is what it should be) of the first two, take another step back and ask yourself what's the most constructive way of accomplishing that goal. Right now you're all just talking past each other, commenting at each other rather than with each other. It doesn't matter how any one else is commenting or how wrong they are: you can only change how you yourself do.
      - chickenfries 9y ago
        I like the quality of discussion on HN. I think we should discourage things like posting pithy quotes from comedians. Especially if you won't even stand behind the point you're trying to make. And yes, I would like my perspective to be understood.
        grzm 9y ago
        I'm glad that you're hoping to be understood. I think it's equally important (perhaps moreso) to also to seek to understand. Steelman† your opponent: interpret what they're saying in the most charitable way. Straw manning or taking pot shots with short questions rarely indicates that you're also seeking to understand or are engaging in good faith. Who knows? They may actually have an important point, perhaps not yet fully formed, and aren't expressing it well. And if others are doing the same, they may help you better express your own perspective. † https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Steel_man https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Steel_man
        ABCLAW 9y ago
        I get that you have a pet project in attempting to create civil discussion - that's nice and very commendable. But... Please apply your own formula to the post you're replying to. Are you understanding what he's telling you, or just trying to tone police? What happens when your conversation partner is not actually interested in having a discussion, and simply posits a position then abandons it immediately? Is it fruitful to create a position for them? Is that a fair burden for a responder to bear to batter down weak, fallacious, but amply spread falsities?

Two things have always been true about human beings. One, the world is always getting better. Two, the people living at that time think it`s getting worse. Penn Jillette

gt_ 9y ago

And there are enough versions of ‘better’ for both assessments to be right.

jacquesm 9y ago

The viewpoint that things are getting better is usually reserved for those that were pretty lucky in the birth lottery to begin with.

Letmesleep69 9y ago

I thought things always getting better is a relatively recent phenomenon. Things didn't get better for hundreds of years for the native Americans when Columbus came to America. Or after the fall of the roman empire was Europe as good the next few hundred years? Maybe there has been a general trend up but if the trend can drop drastically for the few years you're living in does the general trend up make a difference?

johnwheeler 9y ago
I think it’s meant to be figurative more than literal.
- charlesism 9y ago
  Is that a euphemism for "I think it’s wrong"?
- chickenfries 9y ago
  You won't even defend the quote you posted from it's most obvious criticism?
  - grzm 9y ago
    To everyone in this thread: please step back and ask yourself why you're continuing to comment. Are you looking to be understood? To understand? To prove or show that someone else wrong? If it's not one of the first two, please just stop. If it is one (or both! which is what it should be) of the first two, take another step back and ask yourself what's the most constructive way of accomplishing that goal. Right now you're all just talking past each other, commenting at each other rather than with each other. It doesn't matter how any one else is commenting or how wrong they are: you can only change how you yourself do.
    - chickenfries 9y ago
      I like the quality of discussion on HN. I think we should discourage things like posting pithy quotes from comedians. Especially if you won't even stand behind the point you're trying to make. And yes, I would like my perspective to be understood.
      - grzm 9y ago
        I'm glad that you're hoping to be understood. I think it's equally important (perhaps moreso) to also to seek to understand. Steelman† your opponent: interpret what they're saying in the most charitable way. Straw manning or taking pot shots with short questions rarely indicates that you're also seeking to understand or are engaging in good faith. Who knows? They may actually have an important point, perhaps not yet fully formed, and aren't expressing it well. And if others are doing the same, they may help you better express your own perspective. † https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Steel_man https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Steel_man
        ABCLAW 9y ago
        I get that you have a pet project in attempting to create civil discussion - that's nice and very commendable. But... Please apply your own formula to the post you're replying to. Are you understanding what he's telling you, or just trying to tone police? What happens when your conversation partner is not actually interested in having a discussion, and simply posits a position then abandons it immediately? Is it fruitful to create a position for them? Is that a fair burden for a responder to bear to batter down weak, fallacious, but amply spread falsities?