3 ms·

Similar as in 'act on serotonin', which is close enough for me and most people. Like the article says, they actually have somewhat of an opposite mechanism. Tha

Similar as in 'act on serotonin', which is close enough for me and most people. Like the article says, they actually have somewhat of an opposite mechanism. Thanks for the details. Your analysis of SSRIs is detailed, but not of psilocybin - saying they make you 'trip' and that's all is a bit reductionist too, wouldn't you say? They do have lasting psychological effects beyond that, and thankfully research such as this is elucidating what those effects are in detail. By 'amazing', I'm referring to how many researchers, users and therapists refer to properties of, the potential of, and experiences with MDMA, not my own perception, usage or beliefs. I agree that something called 'methylene dioxy methamphetamine' is a serious drug that should be only used under the direction of a professional. As far as safety of long term effects and neurotoxicity, I'd question that about many current, legal prescription drugs such as SSRIs.

TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
> saying they make you 'trip' and that's all is a bit reductionist too, wouldn't you say? That's not all I said. First I compared the pharmacodynamics of the two(reuptake inhibition leading to better utilization of existing serotonin of SSRI vs direct serotonin receptor agonism of psilocybin), then I compared the psychological effects(fewer acute psychiatric effects in SSRI vs the "trip" of psilocybin). I personally don't believe that's reductionist. > As far as safety of long term effects and neurotoxicity, I'd question that about many current, legal prescription drugs such as SSRIs. There may be undiscovered negative effects of drugs like SSRIs, but suggesting that the negative effects of such drugs compare to the already recognized dose-dependent neurotoxic effects of MDMA is a stretch. Its combination of monoamine release and reuptake inhibition causes much more severe neurotoxic effects than SSRIs.
- code_duck 9y ago
  I don't doubt that one would not want to take MDMA daily or regularly, and I doubt it will ever be prescribed or used like that - at least not in recreational doses. Their potential in large doses seems to be in therapeutic intervention. If you know, I'd love to hear more about the mechanisms of psilocybin in the way you described SSRIs - I've done some reading but my understanding is certainly at the layman level. Hopefully we will see research about related substances that exhibit therapeutic qualities with less toxic drawbacks.
  - TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
    > I'd love to hear more about the mechanisms of psilocybin in the way you described SSRIs Sure, but keep in mind that 1) I'm just a hobbyist and what I think may be wrong, and 2) most of what I studied was a few years ago, things may have changed since then. Serotonin is a neurotransmitter that acts upon serotonin(5-HT) receptors. Modification of these receptors by serotonin help control several systems of the brain, many of which are still being researched. Not all serotonin receptors are the same, and those different receptors affect different systems of the body differently, as well as interact with drugs differently. Examples of these are 5-HT1A, 5-HT2A, 5-HT2B, and many many others. Psilocybin partially activates(aka partially agonizes[1]) several serotonin receptors, mostly 5-HT2B and 5-HT2C receptors, but also 5-HT2A. 5-HT2C regulates regulates mood, anxiety, feeding, and reproductive behavior[2], while 5-HT2A links to the visual cortex and orbitofrontal cortex[3]. Agonism of these receptors modifies those systems they're linked to, causing emotional, behavioral, and visuospacial changes. Note how different this is from an SSRI. SSRIs basically increase existing serotonin, while this drug activates the receptors of the brain itself. A big reason psilocybin isn't physically dangerous(you can't die from OD) is because it's just a partial agonist, meaning it doesn't fully link into the receptor and activate it. There do exist full agonists like 25C-NBOMe that are psychedelic, but are also incredibly dangerous. You can die from those. If you are interested in psychedelics, IMO it's _super_ interesting to read about the history of the 2C generation of drugs. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partial_agonist https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partial_agonist [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-HT2C_receptor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-HT2C_receptor [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-HT2A_receptor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-HT2A_receptor [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25C-NBOMe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25C-NBOMe

TheAdamAndChe 9y ago

> saying they make you 'trip' and that's all is a bit reductionist too, wouldn't you say? That's not all I said. First I compared the pharmacodynamics of the two(reuptake inhibition leading to better utilization of existing serotonin of SSRI vs direct serotonin receptor agonism of psilocybin), then I compared the psychological effects(fewer acute psychiatric effects in SSRI vs the "trip" of psilocybin). I personally don't believe that's reductionist. > As far as safety of long term effects and neurotoxicity, I'd question that about many current, legal prescription drugs such as SSRIs. There may be undiscovered negative effects of drugs like SSRIs, but suggesting that the negative effects of such drugs compare to the already recognized dose-dependent neurotoxic effects of MDMA is a stretch. Its combination of monoamine release and reuptake inhibition causes much more severe neurotoxic effects than SSRIs.

code_duck 9y ago
I don't doubt that one would not want to take MDMA daily or regularly, and I doubt it will ever be prescribed or used like that - at least not in recreational doses. Their potential in large doses seems to be in therapeutic intervention. If you know, I'd love to hear more about the mechanisms of psilocybin in the way you described SSRIs - I've done some reading but my understanding is certainly at the layman level. Hopefully we will see research about related substances that exhibit therapeutic qualities with less toxic drawbacks.
- TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
  > I'd love to hear more about the mechanisms of psilocybin in the way you described SSRIs Sure, but keep in mind that 1) I'm just a hobbyist and what I think may be wrong, and 2) most of what I studied was a few years ago, things may have changed since then. Serotonin is a neurotransmitter that acts upon serotonin(5-HT) receptors. Modification of these receptors by serotonin help control several systems of the brain, many of which are still being researched. Not all serotonin receptors are the same, and those different receptors affect different systems of the body differently, as well as interact with drugs differently. Examples of these are 5-HT1A, 5-HT2A, 5-HT2B, and many many others. Psilocybin partially activates(aka partially agonizes[1]) several serotonin receptors, mostly 5-HT2B and 5-HT2C receptors, but also 5-HT2A. 5-HT2C regulates regulates mood, anxiety, feeding, and reproductive behavior[2], while 5-HT2A links to the visual cortex and orbitofrontal cortex[3]. Agonism of these receptors modifies those systems they're linked to, causing emotional, behavioral, and visuospacial changes. Note how different this is from an SSRI. SSRIs basically increase existing serotonin, while this drug activates the receptors of the brain itself. A big reason psilocybin isn't physically dangerous(you can't die from OD) is because it's just a partial agonist, meaning it doesn't fully link into the receptor and activate it. There do exist full agonists like 25C-NBOMe that are psychedelic, but are also incredibly dangerous. You can die from those. If you are interested in psychedelics, IMO it's _super_ interesting to read about the history of the 2C generation of drugs. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partial_agonist https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partial_agonist [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-HT2C_receptor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-HT2C_receptor [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-HT2A_receptor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-HT2A_receptor [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25C-NBOMe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25C-NBOMe