6 ms·

> It makes me wonder if the real resistance to this research is that an unmodified mushroom medicine would not be patentable, and it would be financially catast

> It makes me wonder if the real resistance to this research is that an unmodified mushroom medicine would not be patentable, and it would be financially catastrophic to big pharma if people stopped taking their medication and grew their own more effective ones. Many of the antidepressant and psychoactive/psychedelic effects are caused by 5-ht2a receptor agonism, and many novel 5-ht2a agonists have been made[1], most of which could be patented. The issue is abuse potential. Most of these drugs can be used to "trip," or have a psychedelic experience, meaning it would likely be made illegal very quickly. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-HT2A_receptor#Agonists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-HT2A_receptor#Agonists

SimbaOnSteroids 9y ago
Fentanyl and cocaine are both schedule II, I wouldn't be surprised if these were the same way.
naasking 9y ago
> The issue is abuse potential. Most of these drugs can be used to "trip," or have a psychedelic experience, meaning it would likely be made illegal very quickly. But why is tripping considered abuse? Particularly in cases where overdosing is difficult or impossible (like with marijuana). These requirements just seem asinine.
- drb91 9y ago
  This is ultimately politics, and it is easy to scare with images of people who behave in entirely unpredictable ways. One underutilized method to fight this, IMHO, is illustrating how terrible that line of thought is when you can compare it favorably to getting drunk in almost every way—but most of all judgement. Drunk people are already ethical black holes.
- cle 9y ago
  Because in the late 60s and 70s, US politicians needed scapegoats to blame for the social unrest, and the psychedelic movement with prominent figureheads like Timothy Leary was an easy target. Demonizing and criminalizing their drugs of choice gave them cause to imprison them and break up their social movements. So campaigns and institutions were established to proselytize the dangers of whatever drugs they were using, and laws were written and regulations established which simultaneously criminalized those drugs. Because the US political system is very slow moving and hard to course-correct, those institutions, regulations, and propaganda continue to this day.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- 0xcde4c3db 9y ago
  > But why is tripping considered abuse? Particularly in cases where overdosing is difficult or impossible (like with marijuana). These requirements just seem asinine. It's heavily associated with '60s counterculture in general, and more specifically hippies. Some users were starting to talk about entirely new (to them) kinds of spiritual experiences that didn't fit with Western religious traditions. Prohibition was seen as a valid tool for keeping these "subversive" people under control and blunting their effect on wider society.
- hippich 9y ago
  To all replied here with "politics" as a reason. How do you explain the fact there are harsh policies in the ex-USSR countries, where no racism existed, no hippies, no minorities to put in jail, etc?
  - petre 9y ago
    The communist regimes just banned anything which didn't adhere to the new man utopian concept. Blue jeans, males with long hair, narcotics, being gay, being unemployed etc. Alcohol wasn't banned for some reason, although Gorbatchev tried to limit alcohol use and failed. No racism? In the early USSR, racism was state policy, with people being deported to Siberia or scattered around the USSR in order to dillute their culture. Ukraine was also subjected to genocide through famine, which killed 7-10M people.
gt_ 9y ago
Sounds questionable. Many substances with high abuse potential are used by medicine, and alcohol has no medical benefits that I know of but creates loads of problems everywhere I look. I don’t feel like I’m making any non-obvious points.
- ttul 9y ago
  You obviously have never done mushrooms. You can’t abuse mushrooms. They are non addictive and self limiting.
  - gt_ 9y ago
    Maybe you meant to reply to the parent of my comment?
  - heavenlyblue 9y ago
    You can abuse mushrooms if you take them in lower dosages. This keeps the antidepressant effect, but doesn't allow you to trip. I had done this - nothing bad happened to me, but not suggesting to try this at home. The point still stands though: please don't misinform people around you since that just reinforces the negative agenda around theses substances.
    - Scalestein 9y ago
      Curious as someone who has considered micro dosing - what would you say the effects of taking the lower dosages repeatedly were that would put it in the 'abuse' category?
      - heavenlyblue 9y ago
        It’s the general anti-depressant effect. Over a course of a few days you get used to the fact that your mood is more swingy - that would be “your ups are higher and the downs are lower”. Now you get used to it, and returning to a less emotional state of mind would be similar to stopping “wake and bake’ing” - there’s no physical dependence, but there’s a routine of keeping yourself more moody every day.

SimbaOnSteroids 9y ago

Fentanyl and cocaine are both schedule II, I wouldn't be surprised if these were the same way.

naasking 9y ago

> The issue is abuse potential. Most of these drugs can be used to "trip," or have a psychedelic experience, meaning it would likely be made illegal very quickly. But why is tripping considered abuse? Particularly in cases where overdosing is difficult or impossible (like with marijuana). These requirements just seem asinine.

drb91 9y ago
This is ultimately politics, and it is easy to scare with images of people who behave in entirely unpredictable ways. One underutilized method to fight this, IMHO, is illustrating how terrible that line of thought is when you can compare it favorably to getting drunk in almost every way—but most of all judgement. Drunk people are already ethical black holes.
cle 9y ago
Because in the late 60s and 70s, US politicians needed scapegoats to blame for the social unrest, and the psychedelic movement with prominent figureheads like Timothy Leary was an easy target. Demonizing and criminalizing their drugs of choice gave them cause to imprison them and break up their social movements. So campaigns and institutions were established to proselytize the dangers of whatever drugs they were using, and laws were written and regulations established which simultaneously criminalized those drugs. Because the US political system is very slow moving and hard to course-correct, those institutions, regulations, and propaganda continue to this day.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
0xcde4c3db 9y ago
> But why is tripping considered abuse? Particularly in cases where overdosing is difficult or impossible (like with marijuana). These requirements just seem asinine. It's heavily associated with '60s counterculture in general, and more specifically hippies. Some users were starting to talk about entirely new (to them) kinds of spiritual experiences that didn't fit with Western religious traditions. Prohibition was seen as a valid tool for keeping these "subversive" people under control and blunting their effect on wider society.
hippich 9y ago
To all replied here with "politics" as a reason. How do you explain the fact there are harsh policies in the ex-USSR countries, where no racism existed, no hippies, no minorities to put in jail, etc?
- petre 9y ago
  The communist regimes just banned anything which didn't adhere to the new man utopian concept. Blue jeans, males with long hair, narcotics, being gay, being unemployed etc. Alcohol wasn't banned for some reason, although Gorbatchev tried to limit alcohol use and failed. No racism? In the early USSR, racism was state policy, with people being deported to Siberia or scattered around the USSR in order to dillute their culture. Ukraine was also subjected to genocide through famine, which killed 7-10M people.

gt_ 9y ago

Sounds questionable. Many substances with high abuse potential are used by medicine, and alcohol has no medical benefits that I know of but creates loads of problems everywhere I look. I don’t feel like I’m making any non-obvious points.

ttul 9y ago
You obviously have never done mushrooms. You can’t abuse mushrooms. They are non addictive and self limiting.
- gt_ 9y ago
  Maybe you meant to reply to the parent of my comment?
- heavenlyblue 9y ago
  You can abuse mushrooms if you take them in lower dosages. This keeps the antidepressant effect, but doesn't allow you to trip. I had done this - nothing bad happened to me, but not suggesting to try this at home. The point still stands though: please don't misinform people around you since that just reinforces the negative agenda around theses substances.
  - Scalestein 9y ago
    Curious as someone who has considered micro dosing - what would you say the effects of taking the lower dosages repeatedly were that would put it in the 'abuse' category?
    - heavenlyblue 9y ago
      It’s the general anti-depressant effect. Over a course of a few days you get used to the fact that your mood is more swingy - that would be “your ups are higher and the downs are lower”. Now you get used to it, and returning to a less emotional state of mind would be similar to stopping “wake and bake’ing” - there’s no physical dependence, but there’s a routine of keeping yourself more moody every day.