5 ms·

This is fascinating as this is the plague of our generation. depression is such a debilitating condition, and in the UK mental health care has fallen to the lev

This is fascinating as this is the plague of our generation. depression is such a debilitating condition, and in the UK mental health care has fallen to the level where it doesn't really exist outside of prescription medication. There was an earlier study in the UK [0] which showed similar effects, again on a small sample. The following interested me > A clinical trial, which took years and significant money to complete due to the stringent regulatory restrictions imposed around the class 1 drug This seems insane. Lots of other prescription drugs would be illegal for me to buy, why is this reserved for mushrooms that grow in our lawn? It makes me wonder if the real resistance to this research is that an unmodified mushroom medicine would not be patentable, and it would be financially catastrophic to big pharma if people stopped taking their medication and grew their own more effective ones. I note that many people are concerned about the side effects of magic-mushrooms. Perhaps you could consider that weighed against the side effects of the Seroxat[1] which amongst other things can stop a man reaching orgasm, or stop you dreaming(!) for years after taking it, is addictive and clouds your judgment. It can turn you suicidal or homicidal. I wont bother to list any of the others and their side effects, but I know I would try the mushrooms first, and I would urge my family to do the same if they needed help. [0]https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/may/17/magic-mushrooms-lift-severe-depression-in-clinical-trial https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/may/17/magic-mushro... [1]https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/jun/11/highereducation.medicalscience https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/jun/11/highereducation.m...

agumonkey 9y ago
are you sure about the addictive nature ? http://www.depression-guide.com/seroxat.htm http://www.depression-guide.com/seroxat.htm says no there are clear withdrawal symptoms (no one should drop this treatment without gradual dose lowering) but addiction seems the wrong word
TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
> It makes me wonder if the real resistance to this research is that an unmodified mushroom medicine would not be patentable, and it would be financially catastrophic to big pharma if people stopped taking their medication and grew their own more effective ones. Many of the antidepressant and psychoactive/psychedelic effects are caused by 5-ht2a receptor agonism, and many novel 5-ht2a agonists have been made[1], most of which could be patented. The issue is abuse potential. Most of these drugs can be used to "trip," or have a psychedelic experience, meaning it would likely be made illegal very quickly. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-HT2A_receptor#Agonists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-HT2A_receptor#Agonists
- SimbaOnSteroids 9y ago
  Fentanyl and cocaine are both schedule II, I wouldn't be surprised if these were the same way.
- naasking 9y ago
  > The issue is abuse potential. Most of these drugs can be used to "trip," or have a psychedelic experience, meaning it would likely be made illegal very quickly. But why is tripping considered abuse? Particularly in cases where overdosing is difficult or impossible (like with marijuana). These requirements just seem asinine.
  - drb91 9y ago
    This is ultimately politics, and it is easy to scare with images of people who behave in entirely unpredictable ways. One underutilized method to fight this, IMHO, is illustrating how terrible that line of thought is when you can compare it favorably to getting drunk in almost every way—but most of all judgement. Drunk people are already ethical black holes.
  - cle 9y ago
    Because in the late 60s and 70s, US politicians needed scapegoats to blame for the social unrest, and the psychedelic movement with prominent figureheads like Timothy Leary was an easy target. Demonizing and criminalizing their drugs of choice gave them cause to imprison them and break up their social movements. So campaigns and institutions were established to proselytize the dangers of whatever drugs they were using, and laws were written and regulations established which simultaneously criminalized those drugs. Because the US political system is very slow moving and hard to course-correct, those institutions, regulations, and propaganda continue to this day.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - 0xcde4c3db 9y ago
    > But why is tripping considered abuse? Particularly in cases where overdosing is difficult or impossible (like with marijuana). These requirements just seem asinine. It's heavily associated with '60s counterculture in general, and more specifically hippies. Some users were starting to talk about entirely new (to them) kinds of spiritual experiences that didn't fit with Western religious traditions. Prohibition was seen as a valid tool for keeping these "subversive" people under control and blunting their effect on wider society.
tpm 9y ago
Currently, there is an application at the European Medicines Agency (EMA) for a large clinical trial of psilocybine therapy for the treatment of otherwise treatment-resistant depression, 400 patients in 8 European countries. As far as I know, it has not yet been approved, but I am optimistic. http://www.appliedclinicaltrialsonline.com/compass-pathways-partners-worldwide-clinical-trials-conduct-world-s-first-large-scale-clinical-trial http://www.appliedclinicaltrialsonline.com/compass-pathways-...
ghostbrainalpha 9y ago
It will be trivial to "modify" the mushroom and then put it in pill form, and it will be easy to patent it when they do it. Big pharma will happily make money selling us what we could be growing in our backyards, and there is nothing wrong with that. Many people with depression, also would like to avoid the trip (especially people who have to work), and if Big Pharma spends millions creating a non psychoactive effective treatment regimen derived from mushrooms, that would be fantastic. And that won't be something we could ever hope to grow in our backyards without the help of the pharmaceutical industry.
- Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
  What if the trip was necessary for effective treatment?
  - macawfish 9y ago
    To some degree, it absolutely is. At the very least, your reality needs to shift. That's the whole idea of healing depression... there are things in your reality that need shifting. I'm also sure that psilocybin isn't the only molecule involved. And I'm also sure that if someone isn't ready to take active ownership of their mental health into taking psilocybin could be just as moot as any other substance. Healing is a deeply embedded, embodied process. If you're experiencing depression, there's probably more than one switch that needs to get flipped on the switchboard, and a lot of dials that need to get retuned, along with habits, beliefs and perspectives that need questioning. Depression is bred out of dehumanizing norms in belief and habit. You can't just continue to go about practicing the very same things that feed your depression, take a magic pill and suddenly feel well adapted. There's going to have to be profound realization. That's exactly what a "trip" is. If you don't want to get jarred by your own realizations, you can microdose. You won't "trip" in a heavy sense, but you very well might uncover some painful things you've been neglecting for a very long time. Hopefully then you will do what you've been needing to do for a long time: grieve.
    - ghostbrainalpha 9y ago

agumonkey 9y ago

are you sure about the addictive nature ? http://www.depression-guide.com/seroxat.htm http://www.depression-guide.com/seroxat.htm says no there are clear withdrawal symptoms (no one should drop this treatment without gradual dose lowering) but addiction seems the wrong word

TheAdamAndChe 9y ago

> It makes me wonder if the real resistance to this research is that an unmodified mushroom medicine would not be patentable, and it would be financially catastrophic to big pharma if people stopped taking their medication and grew their own more effective ones. Many of the antidepressant and psychoactive/psychedelic effects are caused by 5-ht2a receptor agonism, and many novel 5-ht2a agonists have been made[1], most of which could be patented. The issue is abuse potential. Most of these drugs can be used to "trip," or have a psychedelic experience, meaning it would likely be made illegal very quickly. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-HT2A_receptor#Agonists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-HT2A_receptor#Agonists

SimbaOnSteroids 9y ago
Fentanyl and cocaine are both schedule II, I wouldn't be surprised if these were the same way.
naasking 9y ago
> The issue is abuse potential. Most of these drugs can be used to "trip," or have a psychedelic experience, meaning it would likely be made illegal very quickly. But why is tripping considered abuse? Particularly in cases where overdosing is difficult or impossible (like with marijuana). These requirements just seem asinine.
- drb91 9y ago
  This is ultimately politics, and it is easy to scare with images of people who behave in entirely unpredictable ways. One underutilized method to fight this, IMHO, is illustrating how terrible that line of thought is when you can compare it favorably to getting drunk in almost every way—but most of all judgement. Drunk people are already ethical black holes.
- cle 9y ago
  Because in the late 60s and 70s, US politicians needed scapegoats to blame for the social unrest, and the psychedelic movement with prominent figureheads like Timothy Leary was an easy target. Demonizing and criminalizing their drugs of choice gave them cause to imprison them and break up their social movements. So campaigns and institutions were established to proselytize the dangers of whatever drugs they were using, and laws were written and regulations established which simultaneously criminalized those drugs. Because the US political system is very slow moving and hard to course-correct, those institutions, regulations, and propaganda continue to this day.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- 0xcde4c3db 9y ago
  > But why is tripping considered abuse? Particularly in cases where overdosing is difficult or impossible (like with marijuana). These requirements just seem asinine. It's heavily associated with '60s counterculture in general, and more specifically hippies. Some users were starting to talk about entirely new (to them) kinds of spiritual experiences that didn't fit with Western religious traditions. Prohibition was seen as a valid tool for keeping these "subversive" people under control and blunting their effect on wider society.

tpm 9y ago

Currently, there is an application at the European Medicines Agency (EMA) for a large clinical trial of psilocybine therapy for the treatment of otherwise treatment-resistant depression, 400 patients in 8 European countries. As far as I know, it has not yet been approved, but I am optimistic. http://www.appliedclinicaltrialsonline.com/compass-pathways-partners-worldwide-clinical-trials-conduct-world-s-first-large-scale-clinical-trial http://www.appliedclinicaltrialsonline.com/compass-pathways-...

ghostbrainalpha 9y ago

It will be trivial to "modify" the mushroom and then put it in pill form, and it will be easy to patent it when they do it. Big pharma will happily make money selling us what we could be growing in our backyards, and there is nothing wrong with that. Many people with depression, also would like to avoid the trip (especially people who have to work), and if Big Pharma spends millions creating a non psychoactive effective treatment regimen derived from mushrooms, that would be fantastic. And that won't be something we could ever hope to grow in our backyards without the help of the pharmaceutical industry.

Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
What if the trip was necessary for effective treatment?
- macawfish 9y ago
  To some degree, it absolutely is. At the very least, your reality needs to shift. That's the whole idea of healing depression... there are things in your reality that need shifting. I'm also sure that psilocybin isn't the only molecule involved. And I'm also sure that if someone isn't ready to take active ownership of their mental health into taking psilocybin could be just as moot as any other substance. Healing is a deeply embedded, embodied process. If you're experiencing depression, there's probably more than one switch that needs to get flipped on the switchboard, and a lot of dials that need to get retuned, along with habits, beliefs and perspectives that need questioning. Depression is bred out of dehumanizing norms in belief and habit. You can't just continue to go about practicing the very same things that feed your depression, take a magic pill and suddenly feel well adapted. There's going to have to be profound realization. That's exactly what a "trip" is. If you don't want to get jarred by your own realizations, you can microdose. You won't "trip" in a heavy sense, but you very well might uncover some painful things you've been neglecting for a very long time. Hopefully then you will do what you've been needing to do for a long time: grieve.
  - ghostbrainalpha 9y ago