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Considering the performance impact, I wonder how console manufacturers are going to handle this (assuming that the processors they used are vulnerable to Spectr
by ZenoArrow 9y ago
Considering the performance impact, I wonder how console manufacturers are going to handle this (assuming that the processors they used are vulnerable to Spectre/Meltdown).
- rcarmo 9y agoConsole manufacturers don't run unsigned code, so I expect they'll just sit still until the next hardware refresh.
- ZenoArrow 9y agoModern consoles now come with web browsers, and the researchers proved that the attacks could be performed via web browsers, did they not?
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- lrem 9y agoNext patch: we enhanced your security by disabling execution of JavaScript from untrusted domains. In unrelated news, we now block ads!
- ZenoArrow 9y agoIf they are going to block JavaScript, they need to do it for all domains, not just untrusted domains. For example, if I can MITM my own website activity (which I can, by having a device that sits between a router and a console), then I can change the JavaScript coming from trusted domains. In other words, if I visit a site like Google or Facebook on an affected device, I can change the JavaScript that is run, and make it still appear like it came from a trusted domain.
- yorwba 9y agoYou can be prevented from a successful MITM by enforcing HTTPS using HSTS and pinning the keys of trusted sites. That's not a viable solution for accessing the internet at large, but for a console that is only incidentally used for web browsing, it's absolutely an option.
- lrem 9y agoThere are dozens of ways to prevent this, viable because you fully control the hardware and software stack of the terminal (and only allow contacting servers of your choosing). I imagine they are more concerned about game authors snooping keys or whatnot.
- Thiez 9y agoYou can't just mitm when the JavaScript is served over https, unless you also can install your own certificates on the machine you're trying to hack. But when you have permissions to install new certificates you probably don't need the hack in the first place.
- nicolaslem 9y agoI wouldn't be so sure of that. They at least run Javascript through their web browser.
- canpan 9y agoThe Nintendo Switch generally only allows white-listed pages. So the attack vector is pretty small. The other consoles, yes, should be possible. But I think not too many people use their consoles for browsing.
- TrickyRick 9y agoIt will show any captive WiFi-portal however so perhaps watch out for that. In addition they do have a store with indie games which seems to be more or less open to anyone (I assume there are some checks but I wouldn't trust them completely) much like Steam.
- bananaboy 9y agoThe requirements for getting onto the various platforms are pretty stringent. It's nowhere near as easy as getting onto Steam. You have to go through quite a rigorous certification process before you are allowed to ship your game on the online stores.
- philipwhiuk 9y agoOnly the hacker needs to do it for there to be a problem
- StavrosK 9y agoI wonder if you can use Spectre to steal signing keys from the device and jailbreak them. I guess they probably only have the public keys though, for verification.
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- Kipters 9y agoNot unsigned code, but Xbox One runs apps from the Store. There should be a fair amount of checks before an app lands on the store, but you can never be sure.
- alpaca128 9y agoThe current consoles are using AMD/ARM processors, probably they aren't affected that much. It could be still a problem though, considering many console games use all kinds of hacks to barely run at the target resolution/framerate.
- ZenoArrow 9y agoI'm not sure about the PS4 and XBone but the Switch uses the Tegra X1, which has 8 ARM cores (4 Cortex-A53 cores, 4 Cortex-A57 cores), 4 of which (the Cortex-A57 cores) are vulnerable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tegra#Tegra_X1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tegra#Tegra_X1 https://developer.arm.com/support/security-update https://developer.arm.com/support/security-update
- DCKing 9y agoVulnerable to Spectre, yes, like nearly all speculative execution processors. The PS4, XBone and Switch are very likely vulnerable to Spectre all the same but that will probably mostly affect their web browsers. None of these is vulnerable to Meltdown. That is an Intel/Apple/ARM Cortex A75 only thing.
- hajile 9y agoIt affects WAY more ARM processors than A75. All the fast ARM cores are vulnerable to one of the two meltdown flaws and half are vulnerable to a subset of the third flaw (with A75 being completely vulnerable). https://developer.arm.com/support/security-update https://developer.arm.com/support/security-update
- pritambaral 9y ago> All the fast ARM cores are vulnerable to one of the two meltdown flaws Do you mean Spectre? Meltdown is the Variant 3 in that link. > It affects WAY more ARM processors than A75. All the fast ARM cores ... The ARM cores listed on that page are not all the ARM cores in the market (or running in the real-world). There are many more ARM cores than listen in that table, and the page says any ARM core not listed in that table is not vulnerable to any variant of Meltdown or Spectre.
- aceoflolo 9y agoWhat console of the current generation comes with an Intel CPU? And in any case the Meltdown patch is not too bad for games.
- ZenoArrow 9y ago> "What console of the current generation comes with an Intel CPU?" The Switch appears to be based on ARM cores that are vulnerable.
- flusteredpie 9y agoWill this aid homebrew communities in their efforts to run unsigned code on the PS4, xbone, Switch et al?
- kazagistar 9y agoI suspect not, but I could see it used to discover future vulnerabilities. Read access to all of memory is pretty powerful.
- bhouston 9y agoPS4 and XBox One are running AMD CPUs (albiet x86-64 arch) this generation and the Switch is NVIDIA (ARM Aarch64).