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I'll play devil's advocate, since there's more truth to Tesla's words than you're giving him credit for. The comforts of modern society allow the proliferation

I'll play devil's advocate, since there's more truth to Tesla's words than you're giving him credit for. The comforts of modern society allow the proliferation of dysgenic traits. The system rewards reckless breeding of people who don't have the means to support children. Genetic selection happens whether we talk about it or not. We meddled with better pets, livestock and crops. Why not give improved humans a try? You don't need compulsory programs: abortion clinics are very efficient and completely voluntary.

wellboy 9y ago
So you're saying we should give eugenics a try?
- matte_black 9y ago
  Why not really? It doesn’t affect anyone currently alive and only helps promote better genes, which is what the human race is doing now anyway, but very inefficiently. I’d like to see it happen. The only thing that gives me pause is what if we accidentally make humans with critical genetic flaws we did not see coming, or low genetic diversity.
  - dcwca 9y ago
    Because it leads to human rights atrocities, and there is no way to define “better” genes objectively.
    - matte_black 9y ago
      Eugenics doesn’t inherently lead to human rights violations. You can define better genes objectively by looking at genes of people that live the longest and with the least health issues. Natural selection is poor at selecting for traits that lead to longevity.
      - rapind 9y ago
        Because longevity isn't essential to our survival. You're suggesting that diverting energy away from other traits in favour of longevity would have no negative impact. IMO there are all sorts of possible negative side effects that might emerge. Like a longer life making us more cautious, individualistic, and short sighted (not personally but on a species scale). You could argue this is already happening due to environmental comforts and medical advances. In fact dramatically tweaking a trait like longevity for a new generation would likely have a massive impact on their personality and culture... talk about a generation gap.
      - dcwca 9y ago
        > Eugenics doesn’t inherently lead to human rights violations Right, but it does in practice. What if we found that Japanese people lived the longest? Would we only allow Japanese to breed? Or bias towards them? How would you qualify how “Japanese” someone’s genes are? Can you not see how this leads to a toxic culture of racism?
        apcragg 9y ago
        I can't believe this person is honestly advocating for eugenics. That should have died in 1945.
      - wellboy 9y ago
        Theoretically, maybe it doesn't but practically, it has terrible consequences, especially in countries where human rights aren't a thing anyway, it will lead to dystopian concepts. I would suggest to read up on eugenics a bitZ
jeffwass 9y ago
You might feel differently if the state decided you don’t meet the minimum requirements for permission to breed.
- NhanH 9y ago
  Your comment doesn't contain an argument, and it is even attacking a strawman as the GP did explicitly call out non-compulsory as an aspect of it. But I will bite anyway. Taken GP's reasoning to the extreme, what do you think if the state prohibit someone from having children if (hypothetically) it is known at 100% certainty that their offsprings will inherit a horrible genetic diseases that causes pain and suffering their whole lives, and their life expectancy is 15 years?
  - rapind 9y ago
    Bit too big brother for me... and very short sighted. Diversity in both genetics and environment have been essential to survival and evolution. Haven't we already proven that monoculture is a bad thing in the long term? I'm reminded of the bananas from the 60s... We're not nearly competent enough yet to play god at this level. It's scary knowing there are egos chomping at the bit to do it.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
SolaceQuantum 9y ago
Ill respond by simply pointing out that eugenics doesn’t work to remove “dysgenic” traits Nazi Germany eliminated 70-100% of their schizophrenics and just a generation or two later Germany has levels of schizophrenic patients same as everyone else. It even had higher than normal levels after the eradication. Killing off people with shitty genetic traits simply doesn’t work to reduce it in your population. https://academic.oup.com/schizophreniabulletin/article/36/1/26/1868974 https://academic.oup.com/schizophreniabulletin/article/36/1/...
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- Red_Tarsius 9y ago
  Surely there must be some traits we could improve by selective breeding. Strength, intelligence, better digestion. Applying that study to anything other than schizophrenia is a faulty generalization. My post was not meant to promote any violent resolution. Your comment was fascinating and I'll take a deeper look at that paper.

wellboy 9y ago

So you're saying we should give eugenics a try?

matte_black 9y ago
Why not really? It doesn’t affect anyone currently alive and only helps promote better genes, which is what the human race is doing now anyway, but very inefficiently. I’d like to see it happen. The only thing that gives me pause is what if we accidentally make humans with critical genetic flaws we did not see coming, or low genetic diversity.
- dcwca 9y ago
  Because it leads to human rights atrocities, and there is no way to define “better” genes objectively.
  - matte_black 9y ago
    Eugenics doesn’t inherently lead to human rights violations. You can define better genes objectively by looking at genes of people that live the longest and with the least health issues. Natural selection is poor at selecting for traits that lead to longevity.
    - rapind 9y ago
      Because longevity isn't essential to our survival. You're suggesting that diverting energy away from other traits in favour of longevity would have no negative impact. IMO there are all sorts of possible negative side effects that might emerge. Like a longer life making us more cautious, individualistic, and short sighted (not personally but on a species scale). You could argue this is already happening due to environmental comforts and medical advances. In fact dramatically tweaking a trait like longevity for a new generation would likely have a massive impact on their personality and culture... talk about a generation gap.
    - dcwca 9y ago
      > Eugenics doesn’t inherently lead to human rights violations Right, but it does in practice. What if we found that Japanese people lived the longest? Would we only allow Japanese to breed? Or bias towards them? How would you qualify how “Japanese” someone’s genes are? Can you not see how this leads to a toxic culture of racism?
      - apcragg 9y ago
        I can't believe this person is honestly advocating for eugenics. That should have died in 1945.
    - wellboy 9y ago
      Theoretically, maybe it doesn't but practically, it has terrible consequences, especially in countries where human rights aren't a thing anyway, it will lead to dystopian concepts. I would suggest to read up on eugenics a bitZ

jeffwass 9y ago

You might feel differently if the state decided you don’t meet the minimum requirements for permission to breed.

NhanH 9y ago
Your comment doesn't contain an argument, and it is even attacking a strawman as the GP did explicitly call out non-compulsory as an aspect of it. But I will bite anyway. Taken GP's reasoning to the extreme, what do you think if the state prohibit someone from having children if (hypothetically) it is known at 100% certainty that their offsprings will inherit a horrible genetic diseases that causes pain and suffering their whole lives, and their life expectancy is 15 years?
- rapind 9y ago
  Bit too big brother for me... and very short sighted. Diversity in both genetics and environment have been essential to survival and evolution. Haven't we already proven that monoculture is a bad thing in the long term? I'm reminded of the bananas from the 60s... We're not nearly competent enough yet to play god at this level. It's scary knowing there are egos chomping at the bit to do it.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

SolaceQuantum 9y ago

Ill respond by simply pointing out that eugenics doesn’t work to remove “dysgenic” traits Nazi Germany eliminated 70-100% of their schizophrenics and just a generation or two later Germany has levels of schizophrenic patients same as everyone else. It even had higher than normal levels after the eradication. Killing off people with shitty genetic traits simply doesn’t work to reduce it in your population. https://academic.oup.com/schizophreniabulletin/article/36/1/26/1868974 https://academic.oup.com/schizophreniabulletin/article/36/1/...

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
Red_Tarsius 9y ago
Surely there must be some traits we could improve by selective breeding. Strength, intelligence, better digestion. Applying that study to anything other than schizophrenia is a faulty generalization. My post was not meant to promote any violent resolution. Your comment was fascinating and I'll take a deeper look at that paper.