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That’s because your idea of a “computer” has a command line, Python interpreter, filesystem, etc. Kids these days don’t get exposed to that so they don’t reall

That’s because your idea of a “computer” has a command line, Python interpreter, filesystem, etc. Kids these days don’t get exposed to that so they don’t really desire it. Their idea of computing comes from apps that are take-it-or-leave-it, interact with other apps only in predefined and constrained ways, and use touch UI. They may want a better text selection interface but I’m not sure they concretely know that a “real laptop” has one.

addicted 9y ago
But isn’t that a failure of their education system? Compare the kids who grew up on their iPads against a kid in Eastern Europe who grew up hacking on a Linux or even Windows machine using a real keyboard. Wouldn’t the latter have all sorts of advantages in all sorts of jobs? If nothing else, growing up using a real keyboard would mean they could type a lot faster than the one who is used to a touch screen.
- veidr 9y ago
  No, because it takes precisely 18 minutes to use a keyboard if you already know how a touch tablet works, and 3 days to learn to touch type. So, they'd have a 3-day-18-minute advantage in all sorts of jobs
- coldtea 9y ago
  >Compare the kids who grew up on their iPads against a kid in Eastern Europe who grew up hacking on a Linux or even Windows machine using a real keyboard. Wouldn’t the latter have all sorts of advantages in all sorts of jobs? No, especially since the other kids grew up in a more dominant economy and have way more opportunities (which matters more than learning to mess on a cli). Besides, the degree to which Eastern European kids learn to "hack on Linux" is perhaps overrated. Most kinds in school couldn't even learn to power on the PC on their own (but amazingly one would teach another all there is to start playing some game).
ghostcluster 9y ago
My idea of working on a computer involves the ability to at bare minimum select, edit, and copy and paste text without struggle. As does any kid exposed to one of these 'magic' devices, of which I can assure you they ARE exposed. Attaching a keyboard to an iPad does not make those tasks significantly easier in iOS, unlike a Chromebook - a device which outsells the iPad and continues to grow each year. K-12 Sales Chart -> https://d3e7x39d4i7wbe.cloudfront.net/uploads/photo/image/5304/futuresource-1513104922.jpg https://d3e7x39d4i7wbe.cloudfront.net/uploads/photo/image/53...
- setpatchaddress 9y ago
  Keyboards have arrow keys, and iOS supports shift-select and the Mac clipboard command keys, so you might give it a try if you’re having trouble with the touch interface. Kids probably don’t have the same issues.
  - ghostcluster 9y ago
    > Kids probably don’t have the same issues. Your argument consists of imagining that kids prefer iPads to complete certain kinds of work when the data tells a different story. Chromebooks are vastly outselling iPads and their margins continue to increase. iOS has functional shortcomings at productivity tasks, and those functional shortcomings don't evaporate if you happen to be a kid, unless you just want to repeat the party line painted by Apple's advertising.
    - fauigerzigerk 9y ago
      I'm not a believer in the magic superiority of kids either, but neither do I believe that sales numbers are a reflection of specific productivity features. Who makes those buying decisions based on what?
    - robterrell 9y ago
      Anecdotal, but my kids have school-issued iPads and personal chromebooks. They prefer the iPads for pretty much everything (except perhaps typing long papers). Watching them edit a document on the iPad drives me nuts, because the select-copy-paste process is so inefficient... but it's how they prefer to work.
candiodari 9y ago
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/pythonista-3/id1085978097?mt=8 https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/pythonista-3/id1085978097?mt... A little pricey perhaps, but great.
- RBerenguel 9y ago
  Given how good Pythonista is, and how much work the developer puts on it (I’m in the beta program and there are very frequent releases, and he’s very active on the forums for the app) is well worth it if you use or like Python (I don’t even write that much Python anymore, and less on iPad, but when I do it’s on Pythonista). Aside from being on the beta (which would mean I’d have a free copy of the app if I hadn’t purchased it) and some tweet exchanges, I have no relationship with the developer.
coldtea 9y ago
>Kids these days don’t get exposed to that so they don’t really desire it. These days? Kids don't get exposed to those things ever since Windows 3.1, with the exception of the filesystem.

addicted 9y ago

But isn’t that a failure of their education system? Compare the kids who grew up on their iPads against a kid in Eastern Europe who grew up hacking on a Linux or even Windows machine using a real keyboard. Wouldn’t the latter have all sorts of advantages in all sorts of jobs? If nothing else, growing up using a real keyboard would mean they could type a lot faster than the one who is used to a touch screen.

veidr 9y ago
No, because it takes precisely 18 minutes to use a keyboard if you already know how a touch tablet works, and 3 days to learn to touch type. So, they'd have a 3-day-18-minute advantage in all sorts of jobs
coldtea 9y ago
>Compare the kids who grew up on their iPads against a kid in Eastern Europe who grew up hacking on a Linux or even Windows machine using a real keyboard. Wouldn’t the latter have all sorts of advantages in all sorts of jobs? No, especially since the other kids grew up in a more dominant economy and have way more opportunities (which matters more than learning to mess on a cli). Besides, the degree to which Eastern European kids learn to "hack on Linux" is perhaps overrated. Most kinds in school couldn't even learn to power on the PC on their own (but amazingly one would teach another all there is to start playing some game).

ghostcluster 9y ago

My idea of working on a computer involves the ability to at bare minimum select, edit, and copy and paste text without struggle. As does any kid exposed to one of these 'magic' devices, of which I can assure you they ARE exposed. Attaching a keyboard to an iPad does not make those tasks significantly easier in iOS, unlike a Chromebook - a device which outsells the iPad and continues to grow each year. K-12 Sales Chart -> https://d3e7x39d4i7wbe.cloudfront.net/uploads/photo/image/5304/futuresource-1513104922.jpg https://d3e7x39d4i7wbe.cloudfront.net/uploads/photo/image/53...

setpatchaddress 9y ago
Keyboards have arrow keys, and iOS supports shift-select and the Mac clipboard command keys, so you might give it a try if you’re having trouble with the touch interface. Kids probably don’t have the same issues.
- ghostcluster 9y ago
  > Kids probably don’t have the same issues. Your argument consists of imagining that kids prefer iPads to complete certain kinds of work when the data tells a different story. Chromebooks are vastly outselling iPads and their margins continue to increase. iOS has functional shortcomings at productivity tasks, and those functional shortcomings don't evaporate if you happen to be a kid, unless you just want to repeat the party line painted by Apple's advertising.
  - fauigerzigerk 9y ago
    I'm not a believer in the magic superiority of kids either, but neither do I believe that sales numbers are a reflection of specific productivity features. Who makes those buying decisions based on what?
  - robterrell 9y ago
    Anecdotal, but my kids have school-issued iPads and personal chromebooks. They prefer the iPads for pretty much everything (except perhaps typing long papers). Watching them edit a document on the iPad drives me nuts, because the select-copy-paste process is so inefficient... but it's how they prefer to work.

candiodari 9y ago

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/pythonista-3/id1085978097?mt=8 https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/pythonista-3/id1085978097?mt... A little pricey perhaps, but great.

RBerenguel 9y ago
Given how good Pythonista is, and how much work the developer puts on it (I’m in the beta program and there are very frequent releases, and he’s very active on the forums for the app) is well worth it if you use or like Python (I don’t even write that much Python anymore, and less on iPad, but when I do it’s on Pythonista). Aside from being on the beta (which would mean I’d have a free copy of the app if I hadn’t purchased it) and some tweet exchanges, I have no relationship with the developer.

coldtea 9y ago

>Kids these days don’t get exposed to that so they don’t really desire it. These days? Kids don't get exposed to those things ever since Windows 3.1, with the exception of the filesystem.