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Every time I read stories like this, I feel like the value of iOS development is slowly dwindling. App development has been a race to the bottom for small team

Every time I read stories like this, I feel like the value of iOS development is slowly dwindling. App development has been a race to the bottom for small teams/indie developers making it difficult to build a sustainable lifestyle business. I'm not sure if there is anything that can turn the ecosystem around, but I hope WWDC introduces some more sustainable plug and play business models for developers.

overcast 9y ago
I never understood the needs for the vast majority of apps. With everything clearly moving towards the web over the last twenty years, why did we all of a sudden focus on native applications? Money is the only one I can think of. I sure as shit don't need a native application to view news / tweets / whatever other nonsense there is these days. I've limited myself to the very first "page" of my iPhone. No more.
- joeblau 9y ago
  I agree with you, the vast majority of apps aren't really useful or would be just as good being websites. I've culled my iOS apps down to 1 page an a half. The home screen contains apps I use and the second page contains apps I kind of need or can't delete. Everything else got deleted.
- madez 9y ago
  The web of software has inherent unsolveable security issues and leads to an ecosystem where less and less software lies under the direct or indirect control of the user. Proprietary apps are not the solution to this either, of course. We need native, free (not necessarily without exchange of money) and open source programs that do the work for us.
  - Cyberdog 9y ago
    > inherent unsolveable security issues And UX issues, and performance issues. Building (and using) native apps over "web apps" for non-trivial tasks is definitely the right way to go. And, no, I'm not talking about apps using Electron or the like.
- pjmlp 9y ago
  Because the kludge of HTML 5, CSS 3 and JavaScript is no match for actuall good UI/UX and platform integration, as proven by all WebApps platforms introduced since the WebRuntime on Symbian OS. WebAssembly will be the final nail, making the browser just yet another general purpose VM, targeted by all major language eco-systems, using their UI framworks on top of Canvas and WebGL.
  - oneeyedpigeon 9y ago
    Admittedly, I have barely used MS Word in at least a decade, but I find Google Docs a far superior overall experience. Do you honestly have no positive web app experience at all?
    - pjmlp 9y ago
      Google Docs is at the level of Word 2.0 for Windows for Workgroups. Aka an improved typewriter version with some support for images. No, I have yet to use any web app that could provide a better UI/UX than native alternatives, specially in execution speed.
      - overcast 9y ago
        So you'd rather Hacker News was an app correct? I sure don't.
        pjmlp 9y ago
        I use the Reddit app yes. Better yet would be for HN and any other kind of discussions forum, to just be NNTP hosted and then I could use any newsreader I like. The Internet is about network protocols and distributed computing, not trying to shoehorn everything into http:// http://
        overcast 9y ago
        www would disagree.
cageface 9y ago
The web is poised to make a big comeback on mobile. New browser features and PWA techniques have closed the gap considerably. There will always be a market for real native apps but a lot of people are going to realize that a PWA is good enough and easier to build and maintain.
- joeblau 9y ago
  Yeah I totally agree. I think that if you couple PWA with all of the new Smart Contract Web 3 stuff that's coming, it looks like there is going to be a resurgence.
- ghostcluster 9y ago
  Not with Spectre exploits on the horizon. I can almost imagine a future Craig Federighi post to Apple.com, "Thoughts on Javascript"
  - cageface 9y ago
    This is something I'd expect Apple & Google to fix in their JS engines, so I don't see why it's more of a risk for web apps than native apps. If anything it's easier to fix.
- pjmlp 9y ago
  Using my phone on a big European city right now, most of the time I get only Edge network access, with luck. Just browsing HN is an exercise in patience, while I have plenty of native apps to keep me busy. No, Web won't do any comeback on mobile.
  - cageface 9y ago
    This is the entire point of service workers, which will soon be supported in all major browsers.
    - pjmlp 9y ago
      A pile of code, needed to proxy network access, that even requires scaffolding utilities to simulate what native code is able to get for free.
mrweasel 9y ago
A large number of apps never really made sense. Transmit for iOS is, in hindsight, one of those apps. When I look at the apps on my phone, they are all apps that somehow tie into a platform. Platforms can be something as big as Youtube or Facebook, but it can also just be your local bank or postoffice. Indie developers aren't building platforms, they just build apps, that's why they fail. Small teams still play a big role in app development, but as in-house developers or consultants, building apps for bigger platforms. I can't name one standalone app that's successful, perhaps the calculator? Games are different, and struggling with their own issues, in respect to profit. Personally I don't see apps disappearing, in favour of webapps anytime soon. Email should have been the first thing to go from apps to the web, and yet everyone I know just use the built in email client on their phone.
jarjoura 9y ago
I don’t know, I think the iPad as a serious content creation device, something an FTP client would help with, never really materialized. Apple keeps trying but it’s not there.

overcast 9y ago

I never understood the needs for the vast majority of apps. With everything clearly moving towards the web over the last twenty years, why did we all of a sudden focus on native applications? Money is the only one I can think of. I sure as shit don't need a native application to view news / tweets / whatever other nonsense there is these days. I've limited myself to the very first "page" of my iPhone. No more.

joeblau 9y ago
I agree with you, the vast majority of apps aren't really useful or would be just as good being websites. I've culled my iOS apps down to 1 page an a half. The home screen contains apps I use and the second page contains apps I kind of need or can't delete. Everything else got deleted.
madez 9y ago
The web of software has inherent unsolveable security issues and leads to an ecosystem where less and less software lies under the direct or indirect control of the user. Proprietary apps are not the solution to this either, of course. We need native, free (not necessarily without exchange of money) and open source programs that do the work for us.
- Cyberdog 9y ago
  > inherent unsolveable security issues And UX issues, and performance issues. Building (and using) native apps over "web apps" for non-trivial tasks is definitely the right way to go. And, no, I'm not talking about apps using Electron or the like.
pjmlp 9y ago
Because the kludge of HTML 5, CSS 3 and JavaScript is no match for actuall good UI/UX and platform integration, as proven by all WebApps platforms introduced since the WebRuntime on Symbian OS. WebAssembly will be the final nail, making the browser just yet another general purpose VM, targeted by all major language eco-systems, using their UI framworks on top of Canvas and WebGL.
- oneeyedpigeon 9y ago
  Admittedly, I have barely used MS Word in at least a decade, but I find Google Docs a far superior overall experience. Do you honestly have no positive web app experience at all?
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    Google Docs is at the level of Word 2.0 for Windows for Workgroups. Aka an improved typewriter version with some support for images. No, I have yet to use any web app that could provide a better UI/UX than native alternatives, specially in execution speed.
    - overcast 9y ago
      So you'd rather Hacker News was an app correct? I sure don't.
      - pjmlp 9y ago
        I use the Reddit app yes. Better yet would be for HN and any other kind of discussions forum, to just be NNTP hosted and then I could use any newsreader I like. The Internet is about network protocols and distributed computing, not trying to shoehorn everything into http:// http://
        overcast 9y ago
        www would disagree.

cageface 9y ago

The web is poised to make a big comeback on mobile. New browser features and PWA techniques have closed the gap considerably. There will always be a market for real native apps but a lot of people are going to realize that a PWA is good enough and easier to build and maintain.

joeblau 9y ago
Yeah I totally agree. I think that if you couple PWA with all of the new Smart Contract Web 3 stuff that's coming, it looks like there is going to be a resurgence.
ghostcluster 9y ago
Not with Spectre exploits on the horizon. I can almost imagine a future Craig Federighi post to Apple.com, "Thoughts on Javascript"
- cageface 9y ago
  This is something I'd expect Apple & Google to fix in their JS engines, so I don't see why it's more of a risk for web apps than native apps. If anything it's easier to fix.
pjmlp 9y ago
Using my phone on a big European city right now, most of the time I get only Edge network access, with luck. Just browsing HN is an exercise in patience, while I have plenty of native apps to keep me busy. No, Web won't do any comeback on mobile.
- cageface 9y ago
  This is the entire point of service workers, which will soon be supported in all major browsers.
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    A pile of code, needed to proxy network access, that even requires scaffolding utilities to simulate what native code is able to get for free.

mrweasel 9y ago

A large number of apps never really made sense. Transmit for iOS is, in hindsight, one of those apps. When I look at the apps on my phone, they are all apps that somehow tie into a platform. Platforms can be something as big as Youtube or Facebook, but it can also just be your local bank or postoffice. Indie developers aren't building platforms, they just build apps, that's why they fail. Small teams still play a big role in app development, but as in-house developers or consultants, building apps for bigger platforms. I can't name one standalone app that's successful, perhaps the calculator? Games are different, and struggling with their own issues, in respect to profit. Personally I don't see apps disappearing, in favour of webapps anytime soon. Email should have been the first thing to go from apps to the web, and yet everyone I know just use the built in email client on their phone.

jarjoura 9y ago

I don’t know, I think the iPad as a serious content creation device, something an FTP client would help with, never really materialized. Apple keeps trying but it’s not there.