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"the trickle-down effect to cases like those of Garrison Keillor, Jonathan Schwartz, Ryan Lizza and Al Franken, in which the accusations are scattered, anonymou

"the trickle-down effect to cases like those of Garrison Keillor, Jonathan Schwartz, Ryan Lizza and Al Franken, in which the accusations are scattered, anonymous or, as far as the public knows, very vague and unspecific, has been troubling." This is a hot take, especially when Al Franken was literally photographed with his hands on a woman's chest. Sexual assault is bad, using your position to enable that should get you fired. Yes even if you are a democrat. "What about the women who are the predators?" the author claims, though the #metoo was fundamentally about sexual assault, not specifically men assaulting women. I mean literally one of the heinous examples she provided was a man assaulting a man. This article is concerning, and I'm curious what their ulterior motive is. Just to announce my bias, I'm a leftist, and I have a suspicion this is a democrat trying to gloss over the unacceptable behavior of Al Franken, who for the record I personally supported until I learned about the sexual assault.

brucephillips 9y ago
> Al Franken was literally photographed with his hands on a woman's chest. No, he wasn't.
- mjevans 9y ago
  Most news outlets did a really poor job being clear about what the picture was of. (Yes it was staged to look like he might have been touching; and at a glance in an airport on a muted TV many probably thought that's what he had done.) Context and detail matter. Our TV culture is toxic in that it vastly over-simplifies and rapid fires everything.
- vorotato 9y ago
  Yes, I guess you're correct looking very closely it does appear he is merely making groping motions very close to her breasts. It changes it from sexual assault to sexual harassment which is still completely unacceptable. It still is not a behavior that any of our elected officials should be engaging in.
  - brucephillips 9y ago
    It's still not completely clear. I haven't been following this case specifically, so I don't know other details that may have come out, but there can easily be mitigating circumstances. Maybe they had a cat and mouse game going on all day, and she had been doing the same to him. Maybe he was merely reciprocating an inside joke. He wasn't her boss, so that sort of game wouldn't be a big deal. I'm sure this sounds to you like I'm reaching, but I can think of many, many similar circumstances where I've done something completely innocent in context that would get me skewered if taken as a sound bite or a picture. That's why I'm slow to take the man's career.
    - vorotato 9y ago
      They were on a work trip together as colleagues. If you're on a work trip, or any work event you don't make advances on your colleagues and you definitely don't make sexual jokes. IANAL but unwanted advances in the workplace constitutes sexual harassment, feigned groping jokes also count as sexual harassment. If she was making butt grope jokes at him she could similarly lose her job. It's a very bad idea all around and you shouldn't do it. Just because someone doesn't press charges because they're having fun with it doesn't mean you're not walking on insanely thin ice.
      - brucephillips 9y ago
        > If you're on a work trip, or any work event you don't make advances on your colleagues and you definitely don't make sexual jokes. Different cultures are different. Sex isn't inherently evil or even taboo. Military guys hit each other in the balls on a regular basis. The only absolute here is that you shouldn't continue some behavior you know is unwelcome. It's entirely possible Franken was abiding by this rule.
        vorotato 9y ago
        It's law in the US, and he is a United States Senator. Just because people in the military don't report sexual assault for being whacked in the balls doesn't mean one couldn't, or shouldn't. Sex isn't evil, but sex is often used in the workplace to coerce, intimidate and violate. There is absolutely nothing wrong with sex, there is absolutely something wrong with violating consent. People have the right to their bodily autonomy, some people even have strict religious codes that they've been working all their life to follow. Some people commit suicide after a sexual assault. If you want to hit your own balls that's fine, if someone gives you express permission to hit their balls that's also fine (though you should probably get it in writing), but if you go up and down the streets hitting people in the balls you're going to get arrested.
pzenger 9y ago
He had his hands hovering over a woman's chest, not touching it.
- vorotato 9y ago
  I had only seen the photo and not read the investigations around it. In the photo it was unclear as to whether he was or was not touching. I'll concede I may have been wrong about that but still stand by the premise that you should not be a US senator if you cannot avoid sexually harassing US citizens (joke or otherwise).
  - nuclearchicken 9y ago
    Quite right. Elected officials should conduct themselves in a manner which could never be construed as anything other than sheer professionalism.
    - vorotato 9y ago
      I mean that seems a bit hyperbolic. I'm merely saying that it's reasonable to expected elected officials to not engage in criminal behavior.
- RickJWagner 9y ago
  True. He also forcibly kissed an unwilling woman, trying to force his tongue into her mouth. Franken was creepy. We need to get rid of creeps on both sides of the political aisle.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
tmp_account123 9y ago
> "What about the women who are the predators?" the author claims, though the #metoo was fundamentally about sexual assault, not specifically men assaulting women. It's strange that amidst all the coverage, Corey Feldman's bravery has gone largely ignored.

brucephillips 9y ago

> Al Franken was literally photographed with his hands on a woman's chest. No, he wasn't.

mjevans 9y ago
Most news outlets did a really poor job being clear about what the picture was of. (Yes it was staged to look like he might have been touching; and at a glance in an airport on a muted TV many probably thought that's what he had done.) Context and detail matter. Our TV culture is toxic in that it vastly over-simplifies and rapid fires everything.
vorotato 9y ago
Yes, I guess you're correct looking very closely it does appear he is merely making groping motions very close to her breasts. It changes it from sexual assault to sexual harassment which is still completely unacceptable. It still is not a behavior that any of our elected officials should be engaging in.
- brucephillips 9y ago
  It's still not completely clear. I haven't been following this case specifically, so I don't know other details that may have come out, but there can easily be mitigating circumstances. Maybe they had a cat and mouse game going on all day, and she had been doing the same to him. Maybe he was merely reciprocating an inside joke. He wasn't her boss, so that sort of game wouldn't be a big deal. I'm sure this sounds to you like I'm reaching, but I can think of many, many similar circumstances where I've done something completely innocent in context that would get me skewered if taken as a sound bite or a picture. That's why I'm slow to take the man's career.
  - vorotato 9y ago
    They were on a work trip together as colleagues. If you're on a work trip, or any work event you don't make advances on your colleagues and you definitely don't make sexual jokes. IANAL but unwanted advances in the workplace constitutes sexual harassment, feigned groping jokes also count as sexual harassment. If she was making butt grope jokes at him she could similarly lose her job. It's a very bad idea all around and you shouldn't do it. Just because someone doesn't press charges because they're having fun with it doesn't mean you're not walking on insanely thin ice.
    - brucephillips 9y ago
      > If you're on a work trip, or any work event you don't make advances on your colleagues and you definitely don't make sexual jokes. Different cultures are different. Sex isn't inherently evil or even taboo. Military guys hit each other in the balls on a regular basis. The only absolute here is that you shouldn't continue some behavior you know is unwelcome. It's entirely possible Franken was abiding by this rule.
      - vorotato 9y ago
        It's law in the US, and he is a United States Senator. Just because people in the military don't report sexual assault for being whacked in the balls doesn't mean one couldn't, or shouldn't. Sex isn't evil, but sex is often used in the workplace to coerce, intimidate and violate. There is absolutely nothing wrong with sex, there is absolutely something wrong with violating consent. People have the right to their bodily autonomy, some people even have strict religious codes that they've been working all their life to follow. Some people commit suicide after a sexual assault. If you want to hit your own balls that's fine, if someone gives you express permission to hit their balls that's also fine (though you should probably get it in writing), but if you go up and down the streets hitting people in the balls you're going to get arrested.

pzenger 9y ago

He had his hands hovering over a woman's chest, not touching it.

vorotato 9y ago
I had only seen the photo and not read the investigations around it. In the photo it was unclear as to whether he was or was not touching. I'll concede I may have been wrong about that but still stand by the premise that you should not be a US senator if you cannot avoid sexually harassing US citizens (joke or otherwise).
- nuclearchicken 9y ago
  Quite right. Elected officials should conduct themselves in a manner which could never be construed as anything other than sheer professionalism.
  - vorotato 9y ago
    I mean that seems a bit hyperbolic. I'm merely saying that it's reasonable to expected elected officials to not engage in criminal behavior.
RickJWagner 9y ago
True. He also forcibly kissed an unwilling woman, trying to force his tongue into her mouth. Franken was creepy. We need to get rid of creeps on both sides of the political aisle.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

tmp_account123 9y ago

> "What about the women who are the predators?" the author claims, though the #metoo was fundamentally about sexual assault, not specifically men assaulting women. It's strange that amidst all the coverage, Corey Feldman's bravery has gone largely ignored.